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Presidential debate...let's hear your thoughts

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TimToad

Active Member
I think whoever sits in the Oval Office is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Every policy decision is picked apart and ridiculed by the party whose ox is being gored at the moment. I firmly believe that the myth of "trickle down" economics has been thoroughly debunked and if we expect to survive into the unforeseen future, we have to reclaim our economy from those squeezing the working classes the most. The huckster trying last night to sell more of the same as an "agent of change" won't fool a majority of Americans living with the struggles of a working class existence. Decrying the "status quo" while self-servingly trying to maintain a 40 year old and deeply flawed economic theory that has enabled himself to be enriched at the expense of others is comical on it face.

I believe that the media's desire to create the illusion of a horserace after it became apparent that the GOP did not have a credible candidate to offer, has spawned a very dangerous precedent that needs to be confronted vigorously. Hopefully the overt refocus on facts and actual policy positions that occurred last night will spare us in the future from an even more unstable, unqualified, reactionary, self-serving, cult of personality type candidate.

With the melting pot of interests, demographics, classes, religions, etc. present here, we simply aren't like any other country. The days of having the presumption of national unity beyond very symbolic gestures are long gone. We're an increasingly diverse and dynamic society that requires outreach to all of its various demographics. Overly simplistic and reactionary solutions to complex issues just won't cut it in the 21st century. The world is just too complicated.

To me, the main criteria is competence, experience, temperament, diligence and the ability to work with others. There just has to be an effort to reach out and do the people's work instead of just being lackeys for the top 1%.

I only see one candidate in this race possessing those characteristics. Her scandals and possible conflicts of interest pale in comparison to the other major party candidate, if you can even call him that.

Last night proved that aside from the media spectacle and promotion of his candidacy, there just isn't anything even remotely "presidential" there.

Much of the perception about Hillary Clinton has been built by highly organized and deep pocketed public relations companies called into action over 30 years ago by those opposed to progress. I blame much of it on a naive, overly idealistic man who thought he could bring an East Coast/Ivy League educated, liberal, smarty pants feminist with ambition into the deep south and expect her to just sit around at cotillions and tea parties.
 

ddarlak

Go Bills!
Wide awake and willing to let it stay up if members can be civil to one another.

LOL, when has that ever happened.

I too will be casting my vote for Gary, I just can't vote for either of them.

Republicans really blew it, they could have put up almost anybody to beat Hillary and they ended up with Trump.

I would say it serves them right, hate begets hate and he rose to the top...

Didn't learn their lesson and hooked the wagons to Jeb in the beginning...like that was gonna fly???

never learn will they (in yoda voice)
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Try to remember something here......... 'Trickle Down' anything does not in the slightest iota, refer to any economic terms for any economy. It is a term used by many for the old 'Horse and Sparrow' theory. It replaced it when automobiles became more prevalent. The Democrats, however, do use a term of...... if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up and through every class that rests upon it. That hasn't worked, yet, has it ??

The rest of your stuff is just emotional garbage created by her party. Believe what you like, but if what you think is best is someone who has done and got away with the things she has, is pure disgrace to all of the people before her. Sure, there have been scandals on both sides, but nothing which would/could compare to her devious ways or intentions.
This race is nothing about Republican vs. Democrats, that stuff has been so debacled, it ain't even funny. It's really about finding someone to lead us and lead us into the future with a country in back of them. Think it's gonna happen ?? I don't, not at this rate. However, I know who has the better chance of making my dreams come true.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Fred the question is will any of us be able to recognize what it has become.

wayne k
guam usa

Can we now? Every administration has contributed to significant change beyond normal evolution of a culture. And that change is seen differently by each individual depending on when they were born, who raised them, where they were located, etc., etc., etc.

Speaking for myself, I was brought up on the notion that we live in a meritocracy that also had a large number of, for better or for worse, institutions and values worthy of respect. Honesty, industriousness, patriotism, respect for others and openness to the views and opinions of others. Much like the principle of innocent until proven guilty, our leaders were trusted and respected until shown to be unworthy. As an ordinary citizen, each of us was free to pursue our own preferences and opportunities and we had no expectation that the government was there to protect us from our own stupidity or from unpredictable misfortunes.

Very little of that remains. And the only choice we have is how to direct the inevitable and continuing change. A large number of voters favor bringing in an outsider and a large number are more comfortable with a known quantity. The problem here is that we are choosing between an apparently unstable, self centered, vulgar and boisterous candidate and a secretive, dishonest, possibly paranoid candidate. Both are divisive in nature at a time when the country, IMHO, needs a uniter in charge.

It is not even recognizable now.

T'is true, t'is sad ... T'is sad, t'is true.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
I don't think Trump is the right man for the job.
I don't think Hillary is the right woman for the job.
Hard to believe out of the millions of citizens eligible we end up picking these two.
Arguing one is somehow better than the other is akin to picking a favorite right before you flush the toilet - entertaining but pointless in the end.
All I can do is watch & comment - we don't get to vote for the president (the man keeping us down).

wayne k
guam usa

3:30am and I'm here watching this thread and printing off tomorrow's production run so my guys have something to do while I fulfill my civic duty and show up for jury duty in the morning.
 

FS-Keith

New Member
they are both awful but I will reluctantly vote for the lesser evil, which i believe to be trump. How any business owner could vote for a liberal is mind numbing. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
 

Pat Whatley

New Member
My biggest concern is that I don't want to vote against anyone. I don't want to vote against Hillary. I don't want to vote against Trump. The only one of the four candidates I'll have to choose from that I feel I can vote FOR is Gary Johnson. Call it wasting my vote, if you will, but I can at least say I refused to help one of two clowns get into office.
 

MikePro

New Member
it just amazes me that this is the best we've got. scandals, racism, bigotry... who needs policy anways? that crap doesn't make headlines.
you'd think with social media being basically a FREE platform for campaigning, that a more appealing option could take the lead over what garbage is being fed to us.
 

TimToad

Active Member
It is not even recognizable now.

I think a lot of it has to do with perspective and attitude. The economy is recovering in most places, its booming where we operate. Could it be better for more people, of course. Housing values appear to be headed back up, unemployment is down to nearly normal levels.Interest rates are still at historical lows. The U.S. Census just reported that the largest drop in poverty in 50 YEARS occurred in 2015 and the Labor Dept. just reported that 2015 saw the biggest single increase in average income in over a decade. Our trade deficit is down to its lowest point in 10 years.

Believe it or not, there are some things to feel optimistic about, if you can drop whatever bias is preventing you from seeing them.

I'm in my mid 50's and aside from the economic changes that have occurred due to putting too much faith in trickle down, the country looks nearly identical to the beautiful, dynamic, unpredictable, mostly affirming place its always been in my lifetime. I've traveled from one end of this great country to the other multiple times including a year long sabbatical in 2003-2004 which covered over 34,000 miles. We are a great people when we want to admit it and work at it.

I have skills, a good work ethic and have never lacked opportunity to ply my trade. I've owned several businesses as well as being married to a woman who has owned her own restaurant and a couple of businesses together.

We have some real work to do on race relations, equal access and opportunity for all, but all in all, my view of the country is more optimistic than pessimistic.
 

OldPaint

New Member
having lived thru presidents from TRUMAN to this choice of lier-lier............and knowing that the USA WILL CONTINUE to grow, i approach it as..............what is the deciding factors in WHO GETS ELECTED.
1. PRESIDENT OBAMA's JOB APPROVAL& LIKABILITY.
ALL TIME HIGH.....53%, likability bout 30%.
2.CONGRESS APPROVAL RATING 17% you do know these are both republican controlled.
just between these 2.............look at the disparity. and you know republicans will RE-ELECT the same bunch of foolsrather then vote them OUT!!!!!
3. ECONOMY IS WAY BETTER THE 2008........and no matter how hard republicans try, they cant make it look bad enough for a republican to win.
4.romney proved you cant win an election with only the WHITE VOTE. and that is all the republicans have. trump cant get the same numbers of black & hispanic........that romeny did.........so his chance at winning get really slim.
5. we all know the population dont elect presidents......ELECTORAL COLLEGE DOES. this should have been done away with in the 60's but it still controls the election process. as it stands today, HILLARY is only 30 or so away from 270. trumps just breaking 200............unless he flips a couple BLUE STATES....... he cant win........as for johnson........he wont make as big an impact the perot did.
thank you fred for allowing this.............AS LONG AS REMAINS ON POINT...
 

visual800

Active Member
I dont have tv so i watched online this morning. i will say this, Lester Holt is owned and not by NBC.

Some the subjects Lester picked was absolutely pointless. i dont care about Obamas birth certificate, I dont care about racism. that had nothing to do with fixing whats wrong.

i like Trump. i like what he stands for and what he says. I agree that we need someone that will rip the administration apart and start fresh. I think lobbyist need to be kicked of washington and not be able to return, maybe then we can towards curing cancer, diabetes and so on. We cant do this while politicians are making money on the side thru lobbyist.

As of today we have not much of a future UNLESS there are some that have put away and are preparing. Those that are to only count on their SS are going to get screwed. Anytime you look the govt to look after your well being, youre screwed, they have proven this time and time again. Meanwhile down in the hood where they get a govt check every month, its business as usual.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
I dont have tv so i watched online this morning. i will say this, Lester Holt is owned and not by NBC.

Some the subjects Lester picked was absolutely pointless. i dont care about Obamas birth certificate, I dont care about racism. that had nothing to do with fixing whats wrong.

According to the Washington Post, Lester Holt is a registered Republican.
 

rossmosh

New Member
I recommend anyone on the fence watch the VP debate in a few weeks. It should push you one way or the other. To me, there is a night and day difference between Pence and Kaine.
 

David Wright

New Member
According to the Washington Post, Lester Holt is a registered Republican.

Yes because as we know there hasn't been a concerted effort by establishment Republicans to take Trump down.

And I would bet good money Holt votes mostly democratic and does not want to upset his peers. Look what Matt Lauren went through.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I guess the really sad part is...... neither of these two, nor the other two people are gonna really solve many of our problems. Not our core problems, anyway. I'm glad some of you are witnessing an upwards trend in the economy. Around my parts...... no such animal. While the crime in the streets are basically in the larger cities, here in the Reading area, crime runs rampant. Our city is about 85% Hispanic and with or without a wall.... you aren't gonna keep them out or beat it in our city. Our city is basically dead. We're overlooked in about everything. We need bridges fixed, roads fixed, buildings fixed and the cities and townships do nothing but put higher taxes on us every year. We pay more in taxes by a long shot, than when we started in business 44 years ago. Sure, we/our business makes more, but between healthcare, taxes food and whatnot, there isn't always a lot left over in the end for most people around here, so they leave. Regardless of where they go..... it's less and less business in the area. It's like a giant cancer and how it is here, is how it is in most other cities. So, just multiply these problems by however many cities there are and you can see why we're losing the battle against a lousy economy. We've allowed the government to help us and now we depend on them for everything.

Luckily for us, we have some really good customers and we are somewhat select about who we do work for these days. Others are not that fortunate. What these people wanna do in far away lands and build the Army and Air Force, stop ISIS and all the other things they haven't done, like the roads and bridges and schools..... is just beyond me.

I also don't think we're doomed, but it can't get much worse or the sides are gonna start to give. Ever see that stunt where people keep putting more and more rubberbands around a watermelon ?? Well, that's what's happening here and we're gonna soon burst and it's not gonna be purrty.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Yes because as we know there hasn't been a concerted effort by establishment Republicans to take Trump down.

And I would bet good money Holt votes mostly democratic and does not want to upset his peers. Look what Matt Lauren went through.

'Matt Lauer' not 'Lauren'.

Regardless, those of you declaring your innate cleanliness and healthy minds by declaring for Gary Johnson, an amiable idiot, or worse, Jill Stein, a boiled out hippie, are the larger fools. One of Donald Trump or Valerie Clinton is going to the the next president, your pathetic protests notwithstanding. That being the case, which one do you want? Trump or Clinton. It's the only choice, there is no other.

As for myself, I can deal with Trump, at least he's done something with his life whereas the Clinton bint has accomplished absolutely nothing other than merely being there. Worse, she's managed to most impressively screw things up along the way. It's your wealth she wants to redistribute kids, all the while with that ridiculous surgically implanted phony smile. Gag.
 

David Wright

New Member
'Matt Lauer' not 'Lauren'.

Regardless, those of you declaring your innate cleanliness and healthy minds by declaring for Gary Johnson, an amiable idiot, or worse, Jill Stein, a boiled out hippie, are the larger fools. One of Donald Trump or Valerie Clinton is going to the the next president, your pathetic protests notwithstanding. That being the case, which one do you want? Trump or Clinton. It's the only choice, there is no other.

As for myself, I can deal with Trump, at least he's done something with his life whereas the Clinton bint has accomplished absolutely nothing other than merely being there. Worse, she's managed to most impressively screw things up along the way. It's your wealth she wants to redistribute kids, all the while with that ridiculous surgically implanted phony smile. Gag.

Typo, perils of typing on Ipad.

Just look who Hillary is virtue signalling to, it ain't us folks.
 

visual800

Active Member
I guess the really sad part is...... neither of these two, nor the other two people are gonna really solve many of our problems. Not our core problems, anyway. I'm glad some of you are witnessing an upwards trend in the economy. Around my parts...... no such animal.
.

you must be talking bout montgomery. We are declining in businesses and economy.
 
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