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Print brokering?
- Thread starter pigsoooee
- Start date
Why is brokering bad? It allows you to offer products and services without a big capital investment. The sign industry currently has too much supply and slowing demand. Why buy another machine and add more capacity and additional downward pressure to the square foot cost in the industry?
As far as growing and starting a new venture good luck this is a very difficult time -- but it can be done if you are able to provide a higher level of service but first you have to figure out your target market and know your competition.
As far as growing and starting a new venture good luck this is a very difficult time -- but it can be done if you are able to provide a higher level of service but first you have to figure out your target market and know your competition.
10sacer
New Member
I would suppose that anyone here who sends work to another printer/vendor either because of lack of particular needed equipment, size limitations or sheer capabilites is, in essence, a print broker since they are buying from a wholesaler and marking it up to their clients.
There are plusses and minuses with the perception of the print broker and I guess the negative perception is from those that have lost work to a print broker - or worse - a wholesaler who sells to retail clients.
Perhaps Mike from Merritt has a good perspective on this?
There are plusses and minuses with the perception of the print broker and I guess the negative perception is from those that have lost work to a print broker - or worse - a wholesaler who sells to retail clients.
Perhaps Mike from Merritt has a good perspective on this?
FatCat
New Member
IMHO - there is nothing wrong with trying to broker offset printing. Just realize you will have to find a very competitive company to partner with to make any money. You can thank online companies like VistaPrint, etc. basically whoring everything out at next to nothing. Most customers will know this and by the time you try to sell them 1,000 biz cards for $75 they will usually reply that they can get them from VistaPrint for $25 or whatever it is they charge.
Locals Find!
New Member
I am a print and sign broker. I worked in both the sign industry and the print industry for years before starting.
I opted to broker deals because, due to medical reasons my credit was wiped out and I couldn't start my own shop with all the necessary equipment.
I started with a network of potential clients that knew me from before I started and knew my reputation. I do all my own graphics for the most part. (occasionally I sub out graphics that are beyond my skill level)
To get started you are going to need to know your products inside and out. Its not as simple as opening a catalog and saying this is what we offer. You better know the equipment that is going to be used, all the methods and know all about the paper stock that will be used.
You can't just offer a few items either. You will need to offer a complete line of products to your clients to be able to fill any need they have.
If you don't have the experience in the print industry I wouldn't even attempt it. You will just be doing a disservice to the industry as a whole.
I opted to broker deals because, due to medical reasons my credit was wiped out and I couldn't start my own shop with all the necessary equipment.
I started with a network of potential clients that knew me from before I started and knew my reputation. I do all my own graphics for the most part. (occasionally I sub out graphics that are beyond my skill level)
To get started you are going to need to know your products inside and out. Its not as simple as opening a catalog and saying this is what we offer. You better know the equipment that is going to be used, all the methods and know all about the paper stock that will be used.
You can't just offer a few items either. You will need to offer a complete line of products to your clients to be able to fill any need they have.
If you don't have the experience in the print industry I wouldn't even attempt it. You will just be doing a disservice to the industry as a whole.
boxerbay
New Member
Don't let anyone crush your ambitions. Kudos to you making an effort.
I started my first business as a print broker. I would design business cards, flyers, letterheads, forms, envelopes, at home. I partnered with a local FAST 24hr printer that gave me good pricing that would leave a small margin. What you may lack in rock bottom pricing you have to make up with on site customer service and great designs. My client base grew so much after one year that I was able to get out of my home office and set up a "shop". By the end of the second year I had my own plotter, digital press and a one color adbick 9800 to print forms. I still sent the larger print jobs out but as my volume grew so did my discount from the printer.
This is America. You can make it happen.
OldPaint
New Member
ive dealt with a "broker" and "installers." in both cases, its never been a good profit making arrangement for ME. BROKERS GO OUT AND SELL JOBS...set a price with that client ..........then come to me and TELL ME, what he will pay for my labor/talent!!!! bull hockey!!! i dont play well with others who have no idea of what is a decent price and WHO should make most of the PROFIT. i told 1 broker who approached me in a paint store, after he ran his sales pitch on me, " YOU CANT AFFORD ME." he never bothered me again. installers, same thing. told one i would sell him RTA vinyl, for XXXX dollars. he liked the price. 1st couple jobs he came by gave me dimensions, i cut, weeded and taped his stuff. all was good. THEN....he started bringing me the material the sign went on, for me to ALSO APPLY THE VINYL. I DID A COUPLE, to be nice then it became a constant. and i was only getting the RTA price i quoted him. he brings me a job, i cant reproduce in vinyl, so i had to project it, and paint it. i gave him a bill for TOTAL TIME & TALENT............AND 1ST THING HE SAYS, i cant make any money on this!!!!! i asked him what he had done to complete the work other then SELL THE JOB!!!!!! and he wanted to make ALL THE PROFIT!!!!! last time i seen him)))))))))
this is why i use the term parasites!!!
this is why i use the term parasites!!!
boxerbay
New Member
Sounds messy. The print company I brokered with gave me set pricing by sq ft. or in the case of printed media by set qty/size. I then marked it up depending on the client as I wanted. On complex jobs I had him quote me and then I would add something on top of it for my leg work + design fee. I would never and couldn't demand what the price I was to pay. As a printer now I would not do any job unless the client or broker knew the price up front so there are no surprises come invoice time. Yes, I know sometimes some jobs get a bit squirly.
royster13
New Member
I am sure Old paint is correct in that it is not a profitable arrangement for him....The reality is that most retail sign shops are not set-up well enough to do wholesale work and compete again true trade suppliers.....So they can not usually give you the same margins you can get elsewhere.....They should focus on what they do best, retail work, and brokers should find a merchant member to do their work...
National Sign Co. - Print
Merchant Member
Total difference...
Broker: Basically a sales rep for you companies products that is not on the employee payroll. They generally come from a long history of print industry experience from previous ventures as well as having connections and some heavy hitting clients. We work with several in different regions of the country and have reaped the benefits of some huge projects and recurring business.
We also have experienced some brokers that are just plain Trainwrecks..
Brokers do not get same pricing as a wholesale partner of ours. Brokers are not like shops who outsource to expand there capabilities. They do not have "skin in the game" as far as equipment overhead, production overhead etc. More or less just an office, computer and smartphone.
Brokers get about 20% off market retail prices or if we carry the paper(billing), manage projects and clients we will pay them a commission based on actual direct margin and bill clients direct. Most Brokers prefer getting paid a commission vs. getting a bill.
Wholesale/SubContract: Shops that have day to day production and either need to expand there capabilities and offerings to clients or plain and simply are so busy they need someone to feed overflow to meet deadlines. Wholesale shops fully understand all aspects of production and we love to partner up with shops.
We also have experienced some Wholesale Clients that are just plain Trainwrecks..
Wholesale Clients get very competitive pricing which in most cases allows the shop to profit much greater than the wholesale provider. We as a rule like to provide the best possible pricing we can to our partners as well as quality and service. Though there will always be a cheaper shop with old dirty technology they need to keep running to stay afloat. Wholesale is all about volume production so wholesale profit margin is made up by the volume.
Each of the two are equally important for a Production facility to prosper and profit. Pros and COns to both but the Pros always outshine the Cons.
Hope that helps....
boxerbay
New Member
you may be correct. Old Paint is not interested. But you can't say that because of his situation that all brokers are parasites.
Brokers bring in a lot of work. If you have some that get squirly then you have to sit them down and educate them on your pricing and methods.
boxerbay
New Member
petepaz
New Member
+1
we subcontract jobs all the time with little to no problems and we also deal with about 4 print brokers and also little to no problems (biggest problem they always try to beat you down on price) and i think if you can find 1 or 2 brokers you can get a good business relationship with you will be better off. it's basically having a salesman you don't have to pay a salory or benefits to
Tim Aucoin
New Member
Maybe I'm a print broker... maybe not, I'm not really sure what you would call me but here's my story...
20 years before we ever got into the sign business, we were an offset print and copy shop, period! It was 6 years ago now that I started to see the trends in offset print sales start to drop dramatically, and digital print was really beginning to take off. Unlike most of the other 70 franchisees in this business, I decided we needed to set up for change. I purchased my first wide format printer and thus began the transition from copy/print shop to copy/sign shop!
I've always "brokered" some offset print work that we simply could not handle, and as of around 2 years ago we were "brokering" most of our offset printing, as I decided to shut down the offset department and replace it completely with a sign department. Our offset press actually left our shop just last week! We now "broker" 100% of our offset work.
From my 25+ years of experience in this business, I can tell you that a HUGE part of brokering print is about the RELATIONSHIPS you build with your supplier(s). For instance, I am in Calgary, Alberta and one of my best suppliers for (envelope) printing is located in Ontario (over 1800 miles from here)! We use him because we've built a great relationship with him and he gives me excellent pricing and stellar service. My local offset print supplier is actually the company who purchased my press. Again, I have a great relationship with this company, as I have known the owner for years from being in the same industry. Build good relationships, do not make demands of your suppliers, work with them and not against them, and you can do a very good job and profit very well from brokering print. If I told you some of my margins, your jaw would hit the floor! :Big Laugh
20 years before we ever got into the sign business, we were an offset print and copy shop, period! It was 6 years ago now that I started to see the trends in offset print sales start to drop dramatically, and digital print was really beginning to take off. Unlike most of the other 70 franchisees in this business, I decided we needed to set up for change. I purchased my first wide format printer and thus began the transition from copy/print shop to copy/sign shop!
I've always "brokered" some offset print work that we simply could not handle, and as of around 2 years ago we were "brokering" most of our offset printing, as I decided to shut down the offset department and replace it completely with a sign department. Our offset press actually left our shop just last week! We now "broker" 100% of our offset work.
From my 25+ years of experience in this business, I can tell you that a HUGE part of brokering print is about the RELATIONSHIPS you build with your supplier(s). For instance, I am in Calgary, Alberta and one of my best suppliers for (envelope) printing is located in Ontario (over 1800 miles from here)! We use him because we've built a great relationship with him and he gives me excellent pricing and stellar service. My local offset print supplier is actually the company who purchased my press. Again, I have a great relationship with this company, as I have known the owner for years from being in the same industry. Build good relationships, do not make demands of your suppliers, work with them and not against them, and you can do a very good job and profit very well from brokering print. If I told you some of my margins, your jaw would hit the floor! :Big Laugh
Gino
Premium Subscriber
cd.... said it best.
There are brokers in any business and for me, I don't particularity like them because of what every one of them eventually became within weeks to months. They will tend to dictate to their vendor what they are going to pay and if you don't bow down to them and give in... they move on. They ultimately ruin things for many of the regulars and leave a bad taste in most consumers mouths and then the rest of us have to clean up their mess[es].
Yes, if you have a business of doing signs and want to farm out silk screening, business cards, brochures or sandblasted signs... there are people out there waiting for your call and to do business with you. However, someone that sits back and just brokers and complains that everything costs him/her too much to make any money....... well, just find something else you are good at and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
There are brokers in any business and for me, I don't particularity like them because of what every one of them eventually became within weeks to months. They will tend to dictate to their vendor what they are going to pay and if you don't bow down to them and give in... they move on. They ultimately ruin things for many of the regulars and leave a bad taste in most consumers mouths and then the rest of us have to clean up their mess[es].
Yes, if you have a business of doing signs and want to farm out silk screening, business cards, brochures or sandblasted signs... there are people out there waiting for your call and to do business with you. However, someone that sits back and just brokers and complains that everything costs him/her too much to make any money....... well, just find something else you are good at and don't let the door hit you on the way out.