Print & Cut

[signnation]

We currently use a Roland sp-540v and it has help expand our business greatly. We are doing more and more jobs that require print and cut or print laminate then cut. We are having a difficult time accurately cutting more then 1 row of decals at a time (12“-18“). If we try doing more then 1 row the decals die cut will be off. Most of these designs are somewhat intricate, freeform shapes (always more then just an oval or rectangle). We are having the exact same issue when we print laminate then cut. We do the environmental match every day before we use it. Also adjusted the print-cut with little improvement.
We are wondering if any other roland sp-540v owners have the same issue or does your machine cut 100 decals at a time perfectly (like Roland claims it will do).
Bottom line, we need the ability to print and cut more efficiently and are considering an upgrade. The machine we choose must be 54” wide eco-solvent inks and have outdoor ability without lamination. Our goal is to have a machine that will accurately cut at least 48”-60” of material at a time, not just 12-18”.
What machine do you use and what is your experience with it?? Any recommendations would be great.
Thanks

 

[JAMESGANGRACING]

i have the same problem with it cutting off. try putting a bigger outline or border around it and make the contour cut undercut margine larger.

 

[ChiknNutz]

Ours used to be pretty good, but recently has been really challenging to get accurate contour-cuts. From talking to others that have separate printer and cutter...where the cutter is a fairly hi-end rig, they can accurately contour-cut many FEET with ease. FWIW...

 

[Bigdawg]

I would consider a seperate cutter. While I have had decent luck with contour cutting on my Roland, my Graphtec is much more accurate..

 

[Fred Weiss]

Having had the same issues for ten years now with our Gerber Edge, I can tell you that what is needed is to add bleed edges to your image setups that are sufficient to handle the tolerance accuracy of your hardware setup. On our setup, we always use .04" bleeds and have no problems.

 

[scuba_steve2699]

Check the guide wire tension on your machine. If it is off by even 1ftlb it will throw off the contour cuts. You have to have a tech calibrate it but what a difference it makes. With versaworks there is a way to set up your job so it prints a row and then cuts the row and goes on to print the next row and cut it etc. I will see if I cna find the article on how to set that up.

 

[spectracolor]

We currently use a Roland sp-540v and it has help expand our business greatly. We are doing more and more jobs that require print and cut or print laminate then cut. We are having a difficult time accurately cutting more then 1 row of decals at a time (12“-18“). If we try doing more then 1 row the decals die cut will be off. Most of these designs are somewhat intricate, freeform shapes (always more then just an oval or rectangle). We are having the exact same issue when we print laminate then cut. We do the environmental match every day before we use it. Also adjusted the print-cut with little improvement.
We are wondering if any other roland sp-540v owners have the same issue or does your machine cut 100 decals at a time perfectly (like Roland claims it will do).
Bottom line, we need the ability to print and cut more efficiently and are considering an upgrade. The machine we choose must be 54” wide eco-solvent inks and have outdoor ability without lamination. Our goal is to have a machine that will accurately cut at least 48”-60” of material at a time, not just 12-18”.
What machine do you use and what is your experience with it?? Any recommendations would be great.
Thanks

I've had the same problem from the first day we bought the printer. I tried the env. match & print & cut adjustment settings but none of them worked. I called the tech where I bought it from (Ordway Signs) and Joe(technician) came out and tweaked the settings (the setting that we can't get into...or that is not on the manual) and now it cuts perfect everytime. 100 decals, 200 decals, no problem.

 

[GTSTech_1]

I recently serviced a SP-540 that was having the same cut problems described. After many adjustments within the Print/Cut menu, wire tension nothing I did would solve the problem. I flashed the mainboard, and re-installed the firmware and this solved the problem.

My .02

GTSTech_1

 

[weaselboogie]

Clean your grit wheels too. If there's any buildup on either side of the wheels from adhesive vinyl , one side of your roller is technically bigger than the other side, twisting your media.

 

[Malkin]

With versaworks there is a way to set up your job so it prints a row and then cuts the row and goes on to print the next row and cut it etc. I will see if I cna find the article on how to set that up.

I would be very interested to learn how to do this.

 

[Mainframe]

I have a vp540 & it cuts hauntingly perfect, every time, I am from the print world & asked the tech if I should bleed my cuts & he said no, it cuts right on the freekin edge & he was right, I am guessing you need some type of adjustments.

 

[Dave L.]

There are a couple of adjustments that have to be done for accurate cutting. Unfortunately, the user calibrations are not as exact as in the service menu. I can say however, i've never encountered an SP i was not able to get back in step, so all hope is not lost. A wire tension adjustment and the Service Menu calibrations (Print/Cut, Crop/Cut, Limit Intitialize) have always brought it back to Zero. Very simple calibrations once you get into the Service menu.

 

[cgsigns_jamie]

I would be very interested to learn how to do this.

It's not very hard. I'm going from memory so some of the terms may be different...

When setting up your print job make sure the "Media Size" is set on "Custom Sheet". Next change the sheet size so you can fit "X" amount of "decals" on a sheet.

For example if I'm printing 5" x 1" labels and want the printer to print 5 rows then I would set my sheet size to 53" x 5".

Next set your quantity, for this example I'll print 1000. Because my sheet size is 53" x 5" I'll only be able to print 50 labels per sheet. VersaWorks will automatically create new sheets so in the preview you will see 20 sheets with 50 labels per sheet.

Now you can set the printer to Print > Dry > Contour Cut > Cut Sheet.

To do this go the the Printer Controls and set your dry time and click the "Cut Sheet" check box <- This option may be under Cut Setup

The printer will then print 5 rows, pause to dry, contour cut, cut off the sheet and repeat.

 

[Malkin]

Hey thanks, I'll give it a try.

I'm guessing that you don't have to have the cut sheet step if it is not needed? Seems to me that it would create a lot of waste if you are printing small decals.

 

[scuba_steve2699]

I found the document the goes over how to do tis step by step with pictures etc. Unfortunatly it is 2.44 MB and in pdf format so I cannot post it on the forum. If someone knows a way to post it here with those file limitations, please let me know and I will put it up. If not, shoot me a PM with your email and I will email anyone who wants it a copy.

Thanks!

 

[Dennis @ Sign FX]

It is a very simple fix. The encoder strip is dirty. Take a soft cloth and gently wipe it down. It is located behind the track that the print head/cutter rides on. It runs the lenght of the printer track, you can see a spring on the left side of the track that attached to the strip.

 

[Jim Doggett]

Having had the same issues for ten years now with our Gerber Edge, I can tell you that what is needed is to add bleed edges to your image setups that are sufficient to handle the tolerance accuracy of your hardware setup. On our setup, we always use .04" bleeds and have no problems.

With all due respect to the owner of this fine establishment, (kidding) the issues you face are very different from the Roland machine.

The EDGE will be off due to elongation of the tractor-feed holes in the vinyl. So the degree of error you'll experience will be consistent throughout the length of your plot, provided your EDGE and cutter are properly calibrated for scale.

The Roland is a tracking issue; the further from the zero-point Sign Nation gets, the further off they are. I'd imagine they already have the kind of error you experience, even within the size constraints they're working. Roland makes a real nice printer; and reliable as heck cutters. But tracking accuracy, the kind needed for contour cutting, is not among their strengths.

Another issue is due to the fact that printers track best in one direction. Contour-cutting is a foreign operation. They won't track backward, well, as Sign Nation, and no doubt others, will attest.

The short answer, for anyone doing more than occassional decal / print-cut woirk is: cut with a cutter; print with a printer. Graphtec is superb at contour-cutting, and absolutely the price-performance leader among top-notch cutters with excellent contour-cutting ability.

BigDawg nailed it, and prove he is in fact The Big Dawg :^) BD is doing exactly what should be done in a volume print-cut workflow. Heed Dawg's advice!!!

Best,

 

[Fred Weiss]

With all due respect to the owner of this fine establishment, (kidding) the issues you face are very different from the Roland machine.

The EDGE will be off due to elongation of the tractor-feed holes in the vinyl. So the degree of error you'll experience will be consistent throughout the length of your plot, provided your EDGE and cutter are properly calibrated for scale.

The Roland is a tracking issue; the further from the zero-point Sign Nation gets, the further off they are. I'd imagine they already have the kind of error you experience, even within the size constraints they're working. Roland makes a real nice printer; and reliable as heck cutters. But tracking accuracy, the kind needed for contour cutting, is not among their strengths.

Another issue is due to the fact that printers track best in one direction. Contour-cutting is a foreign operation. They won't track backward, well, as Sign Nation, and no doubt others, will attest.

The short answer, for anyone doing more than occassional decal / print-cut woirk is: cut with a cutter; print with a printer. Graphtec is superb at contour-cutting, and absolutely the price-performance leader among top-notch cutters with excellent contour-cutting ability.

BigDawg nailed it, and prove he is in fact The Big Dawg :^) BD is doing exactly what should be done in a volume print-cut workflow. Heed Dawg's advice!!!

Best,

And with all due respect to your time with Summa and SignWarehouse as evidence that you know some of what you speak ... I must beg to differ.

The color to color and the print to cut registration issues in the Edge system have little to do with tractor feed holes elongating and have much more to do mathematical conversions in the software that are sent to the hardware and to the inherent design flaw of a non capstan drive approach to feeding the foil that does the printing. The errors that occur throughout the plot in an Edge system are anything but consistent and will occur on both the x and y axes.

That aside, as the guy who invented the Scrappy™ Friction Feed adapter for Gerber 15" plotters, I have a decent knowledge of the limitations of friction feeding and the factors that contribute to such limitations.

What you say is true regarding the distance from home but as important or more important are the number of times the direction of feed on the x axis happens because of blade drag, material drag and the magnification of errors that happen with every change in direction along with the length of the move in each x axis direction. As an example, you will experience a more accurate print to cut registration doing a quantity of 1" x 2" labels that perform the cutting vertical column by vertical column repeating horizontally down the material than you will experience if you do the same cut horizontal row by horizontal row repeating vertically up the material.

My point is that errors will occur and are to be expected and allowed for in a design or in the production procedures. The approach of using bleeds on an Edge is a good solution for most jobs. Bleeds can be an issue on a solvent or ecosolvent inkjet though and may not always be the best solution. Unprinted contour cuts are more typically the best solution in situations where adequate drying time is not planned which can cause bleed edges to curl up off the release liner. The other solution to improve accuracy is, quite simply, to reduce the size of each run where repeats are involved. There's a bit more time taking that approach but the accuracy of the results will be improved.

 

[scuba_steve2699]

To everyone that sent me PMs and email for the file, I have sent it this morning. If I missed you, please send me another email and I will get it out to you today. I hope it helps!

 

[Jim Doggett]

Hmmmm? I'll bet that the color-trapping problem grows slightly with each successive color/foil. Yes?

Also, friction feed comes in lots of flavors. Some supremely accurate; much more so than tractor-fed. Others, terribly inaccurate.

Factors affecting friction tracking accuracy are:

Design, first and foremost. The relationship between the drive drum (grit spindle), the media and the pinch roller is massively critical, especially but not limited to the grit pattern. Roller tension, too, is a big deal.

Next, the supremely matched outside circumference of the drive drum at the points of pinch roller contact. They must match, exactly. An oxidation-resistant coating, also a must. Oxidation alters the circumference.

Lastly, the smooth delivery of material. Any stress, to one side or the other, steers the web.

Get it all right, and nothing touches it for accuracy. Tractor feed's advantage is also its inherent flaw: to have the tollerances that fricion is capable of, the release of the vinyl from the pins would be too tight. Its other flaw is the vinyl manufacture. The cutter is only as good as the puncher that put the holes in the vinyl. No manufacturer gets it exactly right 100% of the time. (understatement)

Back at ya ... :^)