Printer for Canvas Art

[Mopar_Mudder]

Doing some research for my wife on canvas prints. She created her own artwork and then orders them printed on canvas from Collage or Canvas on Demand. Then she sells that at craft show, and in local galleries. It is basically a hobby for her and tuning into a small business.

Now their is a lot more money to be made if she were to print her own canvas so I am looking at getting her a printer. I ordered a roll of canvas and ran a couple through my Canon TZ-30000 that I have at work for CAD printing, it actually come out pretty well. But printer I am looking at for her is the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-4100 which I am told by my vendor is a better art or photo printer.

Just looking for opinions on the printer and the longevity of the ink used in it.

Also she wants to hard mount these not stretch them. Does anyone happen to know where Collage gets the fiber board frames they fold their canvas around?

 

[Humble PM]

I've not heard of anyone running the Canon TZ-30000 for art printing, though they are using Canon Lucia pigment inks, it is a CMYK only machine. Probably capable of being dialed in with good profiles, won't match the image quality of the 4100. The Canon Lucia inkset on the 4100 should be good for 50-150yrs indoor, when using good canvas.

For hard mounting canvas, I've heard good things about miracle muck for bonding onto gator board. Never used it, but heard good things about the combination.

Unless you'll have unfettered ongoing access to the Canon TZ-30000, the 4100 is a real steal. If you can get a 4000 with dual roll from a dealer, that might help with future volume runs, and the 4000 inks are rated as better than the 4100.

I'm curently looking at around £18GBP/sqM for ink (700ml carts) on canvas on an 8400 (previous generation), and the canvas we use for artists is now £25/sqM.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Thanks for the input. Just to be clear I only ran canvas through my TZ-30000 just as a test to see what the print looked like on canvas compared to her ordering them online, and the quality was comparable. So knowing that we want to keep going with getting something like the 4100 that is better at art work. I will look into the 4000 also but according to Canon web site the 4000 and 4100 have the same ink, actually they don't even list the 4000 as a current model.

 

[Humble PM]

This side of the pond, I'm seeing 4000's being 60-75% the cost of the 4100, from dealers, still with warranty.
Different printheads (one on the 4100, two on the 4000), though the 4100 head costs less than two 4000's, and won't need as much alignment with itself (which is an end user activity, and very simple). I'm looking at the 60" version of the 4100, and have no real worries about the print longevity. So if the saving of $1000 isn't an issue over the course of the printers service, then go 4100. Should business boom, then dual /take up roll is a simple retro fit.

 

[Pauly]

"more money to be made"
after purchasing the printer? Purchasing the stock?
the time to learning how to use it, colour managing. etc etc.

When do you expect to see returns?

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

The Pro-2000, Pro-2100, Pro-4000, Pro-4000S, Pro-4100, Pro-4100S, Pro-6000, Pro-6000S, Pro-6100 and Pro-6100S all use the exact same single head setup... the PF-10.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

"more money to be made"
after purchasing the printer? Purchasing the stock?
the time to learning how to use it, colour managing. etc etc.

When do you expect to see returns?

Well it pretty much doubles the profit on each canvas. The other problem is that what she is doing right now ordering them she does get a better price doing "bulk" orders which isn't bad. But when she has one offs or special request that she has to order individual she makes basically nothing on them. Or she puts together a bulk order to get the ones and twos which created more inventory.

So by making her own she makes more money, can have a way lower inventory on hand, specials one offs are a snap. Also opens up options for printing on other media, or creating canvas of other peoples photo's or art.

Bottom line is I don't care if we ever recoup the cost of the printer. This is more about her enjoying it and having fun. But the printer would probably pay for itself in 2-3 years.

My biggest problem now is finding a easy to use and make frame to put them on. She really likes the hard surface "box" that Collage and I think Canvas on Demand used the same thing. They are basically a pressed board looking deal with grooves cut out of the back. Glue your canvas to the front and then you fold the sides around (that is what the cut grooves on the back are for) and it folds into a box with the canvas wrapping around the sides and back. I can't find them for the life of me, must be available somewhere.

 

[Albert Cyrus]

My biggest problem now is finding a easy to use and make frame to put them on. She really likes the hard surface "box" that Collage and I think Canvas on Demand used the same thing. They are basically a pressed board looking deal with grooves cut out of the back. Glue your canvas to the front and then you fold the sides around (that is what the cut grooves on the back are for) and it folds into a box with the canvas wrapping around the sides and back. I can't find them for the life of me, must be available somewhere.

Have you looked into the Stick and Stretch canvas frames? It's a pretty slick system. There are a few distributors up here in Canada. Probably have them there too.

https://expresssignproducts.com/can...500-pro-stretcher-bars-for-canvas-frames.html

 

[darinmcd]

I don't know anything about the canon but the new HP 800 puts out amazing quality prints. There is a huge learning curve if you've never ran a wide format printer not to mention the consumables and profiles you will need. Look at all expenses needed vs sales she has and determine if it's worth it. Not sure there is a lot more money to be made when you consider time and wasted media. Best of luck

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

The stick and stretch looks pretty cool, I will show that to her. I know she prefers the hard surface mount rather then stretch. Thinks it will be more durable because she hauls them around a lot.

 

[RMarshall]

We've made canvas prints on our pro4000 as well as our HP 560.

Hands down the pro4000 has better color, but the aq receptive coating on canvas can be pretty fragile so you might find that you need to coat the prints before stretching/mounting.
The 560 is more cost effective and the image is durable with a nice sheen, but probably not an option for hobbyist production lol.

Im looked into the GoFrame system but haven't ever tried it, it looks pretty great.
I think Hahnemuhle and some other brands have similar versions too but from what I remember GoFrame was the cheapest.

LexJet is a great resource for aqueous printing, I would def check them out.

 

[joelswork]

My biggest problem now is finding a easy to use and make frame to put them on. She really likes the hard surface "box" that Collage and I think Canvas on Demand used the same thing. They are basically a pressed board looking deal with grooves cut out of the back. Glue your canvas to the front and then you fold the sides around (that is what the cut grooves on the back are for) and it folds into a box with the canvas wrapping around the sides and back. I can't find them for the life of me, must be available somewhere.

Just wondering if you found the framing kits or if you had a picture... my wife is looking as well.

 

[unmateria]

 

[Boudica]

Just wondering if you found the framing kits or if you had a picture... my wife is looking as well.

We use these

Stretcher Bars | Canvas Frames | Digital Printing Supplies | Imageworks Supply

Imageworks Supply offers canvas framing kits to create the highest quality gallery wraps & digital canvas printing services. Click to get started shopping!

imageworkssupply.com

 

[davison]

I use a Canon Pro-4100 for my fine art printing and love it. It never has head crashes, streaking, or other problems. Very low maintenance. I had a Canon iPF8400 before buying the Pro-4100, another great machine, I got about 10 years usage out of it before it started to go. Mostly run canvas, textured watercolor paper and smooth archive print paper. Used GoFrame & Stretcher Bar Depot (until they were bought out by Imageworks Supply) ...recently I started making my own system using 10' sticks of stretcher bars the ones I use are Kiln dried Poplar with a slight edge on both edges to be able to use as standard canvas mount (.75" thick) or as a gallery wrap (1.375" thick). I either stretch them by the GoFrame technique, or using my Tensor II Stretcher machine if there are several of the same size.str

 

[Kemik]

I printed these on the Mimaki UCJV with a Matte UV clear coat in single pass. You can also do Glossy UV if you prefer.

 

[bob]

Use whatever printer gets you off. Since no one will ever know what the original looks like, don't fret overmuch about precise color. Forget all of the hand dandy gee whiz canvas mounting an stretcher systems. While some are quite clever, all are criminally overpriced. Rather spend a few minutes and learn to make your own stretcher bars or whatever. I use PVC brick mold for stretcher bars, available at your local home improvement center such as Lowes or Home Depot. The PVC is always perfectly straight and easy to cut as well as staple. Spend a few more minutes learning how to stretch canvas in a gallery wrap as well as setting up a print for a gallery wrap. It's not rocket surgery. There's hours of you tube demonstrations and instruction available.

As for learning to use a wide format printer, that can approach the level of rocket surgery. It's far more art than science and each printer is different. Not just each brand of printer, each individual printer. It's nothing at all like using a desktop printer. Plan on going through a goodly amount of ink and media in order to become a passable digital pressman.

 

[unmateria]

If you are going to go into canvas business, do yourself a favor and buy an i1 pro or similar (something that works with argyll cms). That way you will avoid the "art" and you will know the "science", not having to deal with angry customers and lots of materials and time wasted on proofs.

Buy the printer you want... I dont know a printer on 2022 that cant print a good canvas... But in that marketing, learning colour control is compulsory. Calibrate machine->evaluating max ink->linearizations->ICC profiles and colour workflow with your rip software and photoshop or what u use.

 

[ToTo]

I would go for waterbased. Try to get an used HP Designjet Z6200 or Z6800. Indoor use the pigment inks last forever. Photospectrometer for Color calibration is included and working fine.
I would not go for uv since it isn’t odorless and ink might crack when applied to the frame.

 

[T Nichols]

Also, don't get too caught up in the "12 inks are better than 6....", especially for canvas (not counting some of the newest fluorescent inks). I have a Canon ipf8400s and a Pro 4000 and have done NUMEROUS comparison test. No one customer has ever been able to tell the difference in color prints. Another long-time-inkjet-printer-industry-guy could pick out the differences in gradients on gloss paper, but nothing on canvas and matte. I do make my own profiles, but tests were with both canned Canon and my own. We make our own stretcher bars also. We use the .75" x 1.5" dual-use bars. Just flip one way or the other for thin or thick.

Multiple gray ink shades definitely make for a better black and white image though. Compare an Epson fine-art to a Canon's.