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Printing Grey with HP Latex 360

Discussion in 'RIP Software & Color Management' started by DecalsByDesign, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Mike Perth

    Mike Perth New Member

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    Quick fix with greys for us on our Latex is to increase the passes and/or drop out -10% of the yellow and cyan, we’re using Onyx. Not perfect but works for us.
     
  2. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Major Contributor

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    No we have the same understanding. Input a color in CMYK and output 4 files (1 with each intent) then do the same using a visually similar RGB... Send to your RIP with it's rendering intent settings, print and then show the result... They will be different, so how does that not have an effect. It's even more so, when he changes his color space but still uses the opposing color build and then sends to rip.
     
  3. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    [QUOTE="2CT Media, post: 1461597, member: 17524"]Input a color in CMYK and output 4 files (1 with each intent) then do the same using a visually similar RGB... Send to your RIP with it's rendering intent settings, print and then show the result... They will be different,[/QUOTE]
    Colors, yes. Not the grays in a calibrated state of the machine.

    Edited to also say; The colors that do shift are normally rather extreme colors.
     
  4. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Colors, yes. Not the grays in a calibrated state of the machine.

    Edited to also say; The colors that do shift are normally rather extreme colors.[/QUOTE]
    Even grey, if it is not a pure shade of black will have color shift.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Here is another example 4 different intents and color space combos
     

    Attached Files:

  6. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    I believe you're seeing the non-linearity of neutral tones between the CMYK working space vs your printer calibration / profile. If you're working space is a common RGB space such as sRGB or Adobe 1998, we know it is certainly and independently neutral, and the prints are not neutral, there is no question the machine could be better as far as calibration / profile.

    No need to even make prints. In Photoshop, open something like the ONYX_Photo_Quality_Test_Lab.tif file, Convert to Profile using a common CMYK color space and toggle through the rendering intents. The neutrals will not change, except Absolute intent which is for a special purpose. Do the same with an RGB version. THEN, test previewing a conversion from those working spaces to your printer output profiles. In your case, you will see a shift in neutrals but know, you should not.
     
  7. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    In your head I'm sure that sounds easy, but I don't do any work in Photoshop and that went straight over my head. Honestly though, this new profile put out exactly what I've been trying to achieve. Customer just approved it 10 minutes ago, so I'm happy for now.
     
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  8. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    Gotcha, Decals. Good luck, forward ahead.
     
    • I Appreciate You I Appreciate You x 1
  9. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Major Contributor

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    So all of that to prove what I said?
     
  10. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    You're not understanding. Rendering intents will not change neutrals and you've posted in #22.
     
  11. TomK

    TomK Member

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    What material profile did you use on the latex?
     
  12. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

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    Thats the way to do. No use monkeying around what a new calibration and output profile produces correct color.
     
  13. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Major Contributor

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    But it does, I just posted pics of it. This is on a linearized custom calibrated machine. If you change intent, it changes color depending on how that intent translates to machine instruction. The only time "neutrals" shouldn't is if it is a pure hue. In his case he had a build grey which is subject to changing with different intents.
     
  14. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    Nope. It's important for you to clear on this.

    Changing rendering intents as applicable to any given image on an image-by-image basis is something production artists and photographers may do on a minute-by-minute basis and if rendering intents shifted neutrals, as you believe, the option / feature would be not be usable whatsoever.

    If you trouble yourself with the exercise I've posted above, you might become a believer. Again, no prints are actually necessary because you can use the see the preview in Photoshops's Convert to Profile dialog.
     
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  15. Joe House

    Joe House Active Member

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    I'm with Color Crest on this point. Rendering intents (the basics - Perceptual, Relative Colorimetric and Absolute Colorimetric) affect colors that are outside the gamut of a particular profile. Grays (or Greys if you prefer) sit solidly at the center of most profiles, so no need to adjust those.
     
  16. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    The intents may also effect colors inside the gamut, especially in the case of perceptual rendering. Easily observed in photography of flowers. Because of high color gamut and shades of petals, etc., are gradients of color, using the perceptual intent will move both out-of-gamut and in-gamut color in order to retain the perception of the gradient(s). Using the option of relative rendering, gradients may be lost and rendered as more of a solid color.
     
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  17. Joe House

    Joe House Active Member

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    Yup, my bad to include that one. :oops:
     
  18. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    So with all of your guys’ opinion on color and design.... What do you recommend for workspace settings and profile when designing in illustrator as well as file save format and settings. Is that something I can set and forget for best output all across the spectrum? You guys are too fkin smart, I’m trying to design, print, install, sell, finance on my own with some help from my wife and just at a loss right now on how much knowledge is really necessary to run these machines.
     
  19. hazartilirot

    hazartilirot Member

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    Profiling a printer isn't enough! While you are profiling a printer, once you set ink restriction, you should do a G7 test! You may watch the whole performance of pr.Don Hutcheson to get a neutral gray right.


    If you Caldera version doesn't support G7 test, you may use a separate software for calibration Curve4 or.... if you know how to export measurements at a certain point while profiling share the file.... I'll import the data into my application and send another one file with G7 changes. You better invite a technician who understands in color management better than you. Once you see what should be done to get it right - practice makes perfect! Eventually you will create profiles without help.
     
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  20. ColorCrest

    ColorCrest Active Member

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    Is this procedure acceptable per the user license agreement of Curve 4 software? Are you a reseller?
     
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