printing media and vinyl costs

[chopper]

hi...
I have a question for you all, and maybe you can shed some light on this for me,
it has come to my knowledge, that a media/ vinyl company is selling directly to a competitor of mine.(which I am a user of their products)
I had a conversation with the company just a few days ago to see why they sell to them directly.
I believe that the information that was given to me was not true that they just told me what I wanted to hear.

what I was told was the competitor has had issues with local vendors in the past, and that they prefer to deal directly with the manufacture. he even went as far to say that by dealing direct with them it costs them more. and that the manufacture has asked the client to by from a local distributor but they refuse to do so and that is why they sell to them directly.
now I believe they sell to them directly because of price other wise why would you by from the manufacture if it was cheaper to get it from a supplier..

I know that some of you here are larger companies and maybe the manufacture sells direct to you and maybe able to enlighten me here, the reason I found this out is this particular competitor is wraping trucks and trailers etc. for less than I can buy the materials for I thought this was fluke but after doing more research I found it to be true, and with a little more investigation I found out that they were buying direct. I am trying to figure out how to compete with them with out loosing my shirt, and I am trying to figure out how they can sell at these low rates with out going broke, they are a bigger shop with much more over head than I have yet they under bid me on every job, even when I bid it for less than I will have in it.
I have come to the conclusion that I will not be able to compete unless I want to go broke, but it seams to me that by the manufacture selling direct to the other shop creates an unfair advantage in the market place, which in turn has drove the profit down in this market place to the point that it is almost void of profit. I just want to know if this is common place elsewhere before I mention the manufacture's name, it seems like the small shop is getting squeezed out ...
what is your opinion?
thanks,
//chopper

 

[dypinc]

Sounds like they may be getting government grants, payoff from politicians, stealing from the tax payers.

We had someone on here bosting about doing just that not long ago.

 

[rjssigns]

Sounds like the 3M/Original Wraps dealio...

 

[mark in tx]

A while back I spoke with 3M about directly buying wrap vinyl, they told me they would sell it to me if I bought in pallet loads. I thanked them for their time.

 

[SIGNTIME]

Sounds like the 3M/Original Wraps dealio...

+1

 

[FatCat]

...this particular competitor is wraping trucks and trailers etc. for less than I can buy the materials for I thought this was fluke but after doing more research I found it to be true, and with a little more investigation I found out that they were buying direct. I am trying to figure out how to compete with them with out loosing my shirt, and I am trying to figure out how they can sell at these low rates with out going broke, they are a bigger shop with much more over head than I have yet they under bid me on every job, even when I bid it for less than I will have in it.
I have come to the conclusion that I will not be able to compete unless I want to go broke, but it seams to me that by the manufacture selling direct to the other shop creates an unfair advantage in the market place, which in turn has drove the profit down in this market place to the point that it is almost void of profit. I just want to know if this is common place elsewhere before I mention the manufacture's name, it seems like the small shop is getting squeezed out ...
what is your opinion?
thanks,
//chopper

I have a hard time understanding how they could sell at a such a drastic discount. Especially when you say they are selling installed wraps cheaper than you can buy the material??? It can't be the same material. From what I have heard from some of the bigger shops, companies like 3M will sell direct, but only if you're doing major volume - which would be buying by the skid I am sure. However, I've also heard that while the discount is good, it's not huge. (I think 20% was thrown around in a few threads.) Nice discount, but that wouldn't allow them to price like you're saying... Has to be different material, or they will be out of business very soon.

 

[petepaz]

we deal with flexcon and 3M direct but only because of the quantities we buy. as far as I know they won't sell to anyone unless they are buying enough product. the products we do buy from them we used to have to buy from distributors early on because we weren't buying enough so that would lead me to believe they have worked out some sort of deal. another point I only buy certain products from those companies, just because you do business with them doesn't mean they will sell you anything you need. they are real sticklers about the quantity purchase. for instance just because I buy $2000 of 467mp from 3M at a time doesn't mean I can buy a couple of rolls of IJ180 and they don't bend.

 

[chopper]

I do want to thank you for your replies,
although 3M was mentioned by the manufacture, as selling to them directly it is not 3M that is
doing this it is Arlon, and according to Arlon 3m is also selling direct to them also. they are not that large of a company that they would be buying huge quantities,
it was also mentioned that they were given free samples to use, and that maybe they were using the free samples to print these jobs...that would mean they have free samples for every job I bid against them on.
and then after all this they offered me "free samples" all I had to do is let them know what I needed and they would ship it to me free.
also the problem that the other sign company had with the local vendors was they didn't pay their bills one vendor I know of said when they shut the doors that this company owed them over 30K and never paid ( one of the reasons they closed shop)

thanks again...I am on a Quest to find a manufacture that will not sell me out...

//chopper

 

[chopper]

one more thing..
Fat Cat I forgot you....
one of my friends owns a supply company he had a customer bid a job against this same company and they bid the job for less than he can get the materials for....

so it is a mystery as to how they can do this, unless they are not paying their vendors still?

all I know is it is really crappy way to do business.

thanks,
//chopper

 

[CanuckSigns]

I've gotten sample rolls from Arlon before, they have always been 5yard x 54" rolls, generous, but not something you could print a wrap job on.

 

[chopper]

I've gotten sample rolls from Arlon before, they have always been 5yard x 54" rolls, generous, but not something you could print a wrap job on.

these are full rolls of material.
//chopper

 

[FatCat]

one more thing..
Fat Cat I forgot you....
one of my friends owns a supply company he had a customer bid a job against this same company and they bid the job for less than he can get the materials for....

so it is a mystery as to how they can do this, unless they are not paying their vendors still?

all I know is it is really crappy way to do business.

thanks,
//chopper

Hmm, that is puzzling. Whatever the reason it can't go on for long. If they've worn out their welcome with local suppliers it won't be long before they do the same to the manufacturers. If they are undercutting and not paying their other bills, they won't last either. Not a good long term biz plan, but certainly doesn't help you in the short term.

Like others have said 3M, Arlon, Oracal, etc will gladly give you 5-10 yd samples. Heck, 2 years ago I got a half roll of 1005 EZ RS and 1360 lam from Avery and was thrilled about that. Never heard of anyone giving away a full roll of material.