Problem with liquid lamination ClearShield

[Dakotagrafx]

Not quite so. It is very hard to take care of something if it was administered or presented improperly.

If someone gave you a pair of shoes made from leather and said they were for year round usage, but failed to tell you to put galoshes on in snow or rain.... you'd probably ruin even a good pair of shoes. Your local cobbler probably couldn't bring them back to life if they were were maintained correctly or not. Your putting on a liquid laminate did virtually..... nothing, towards a wrap usage of vinyl. No matter how much good or bad maintenance was given to these prints of yours.... they don't have a chance other than sometimes it works and most of the time they fail miserably with a liquid laminate.

If your customer is upset, the only professional thing to do, would be to tell him you used the wrong materials and you will indeed do them over. Otherwise, you're basically cheating this customer and any others in which you used this method. Therefore, I'd think long and hard about getting the proper tools and equipment if you want to stay in the vehicle wrap business. Just lam your 4 x 8 rigid stock prints and banners if you want to remain at that level and let the wraps to the more professional shops in your area.

Unless it's a language barrier, these aren't opinions, but mostly facts, set up by the industry as standard.
​

 

[jfiscus]

Only having very limited experience trying liquid lam out... do you install the wraps without lam, and then "spray bomb" the lam on the car?

From trying liquid lam on some decals it seemed that bending the decals caused cracking (very visible) in the lam, I wouldn't believe that you could install a vehicle wrap using liquid lam on the panels before installation.

 

[Steve C.]

Clear Shield is not suitable for wraps. I us it only on banners.
BTW. anyone who uses Clear Shield, you can get Rustolium Painters Touch
crystal clear gloss from Home Depot or Hardware stores that carry Rustolium
products. It's about half the price and it's the same thing.

 

[Gino]

Only having very limited experience trying liquid lam out... do you install the wraps without lam, and then "spray bomb" the lam on the car?

From trying liquid lam on some decals it seemed that bending the decals caused cracking (very visible) in the lam, I wouldn't believe that you could install a vehicle wrap using liquid lam on the panels before installation.

No. The whole thing about vehicle wraps is NOT to use liquid or spray laminate on them whatsoever.

Again, liquid or spray laminate will dry very hard. It will not breath or be as pliable/flexible as any vinyl of any grade... cast, calendared or otherwise.

• This is a far stretch as being said, but imagine taking a snowball and packing it real hard. Now, dip it in some water and it will create a coating [old fashioned ice ball]... and when you throw it it will be very hard, but still splat upon impact. Now, take a rubber ball and coat it with ice water. It still has the protective coating, but when it's abused, it will break apart. Liquid or spray laminate are technically incompatible for use in relation with wraps and egress comply medias. They are meant to be pliable , but the liquid stuff is not.... not at all. So, since they are incompatible in this application, it would be safe to presume using liquid lams on wraps is a bad idea.

Now, if you're printing out a 20" x 48" panel on air-egress media and it's basically going on a flat surface of a van or sorts, it will work. You're not gonna be pulling and stretching this to go around corners or complex or compound curves or crevices.

 

[Ango]

Not quite so. It is very hard to take care of something if it was administered or presented improperly.

If someone gave you a pair of shoes made from leather and said they were for year round usage, but failed to tell you to put galoshes on in snow or rain.... you'd probably ruin even a good pair of shoes. Your local cobbler probably couldn't bring them back to life if they were were maintained correctly or not. Your putting on a liquid laminate did virtually..... nothing, towards a wrap usage of vinyl. No matter how much good or bad maintenance was given to these prints of yours.... they don't have a chance other than sometimes it works and most of the time they fail miserably with a liquid laminate.

If your customer is upset, the only professional thing to do, would be to tell him you used the wrong materials and you will indeed do them over. Otherwise, you're basically cheating this customer and any others in which you used this method. Therefore, I'd think long and hard about getting the proper tools and equipment if you want to stay in the vehicle wrap business. Just lam your 4 x 8 rigid stock prints and banners if you want to remain at that level and let the wraps to the more professional shops in your area.

Unless it's a language barrier, these aren't opinions, but mostly facts, set up by the industry as standard.
​

Thanks for your advice, Gino.
But I'm not sure you understand ..
I do not shrink from the fact that it is a mistake to me and my way of working,
I do not want anyone to cheat and deceive, my job is not based on deception.
This client is very correct, and my good acquaintance.
My problem is I want to know about me and my future job.

I am the customer branded 20 vehicles last 5 years every 3 months.
The problem is that only 5 vehicles lamination changed color, and it did not last 5 or top 5
than the vehicle before 3 months, 9 months, 18 months .. therefore not linked to the vehicle that I could
to think that the poor lamination films or anything I have done on vehicles that are right.

I will in any case to take the blame upon himself.
But I worry if I do a rebranding customer's drivers continue to
washing the vehicle incorrectly, what should I do? ... That is my problem!
Do you need to constantly correct his mistakes?
Maybe the drivers (the workers) are lying customer (owner) not to maintain the service car wash?
I repeat that I never happened to all of my work experience ..

Sorry for my English, maybe not the best ..
I respected your response to this post ...

 

[jfiscus]

No. The whole thing about vehicle wraps is NOT to use liquid or spray laminate on them whatsoever.

Again, liquid or spray laminate will dry very hard. It will not breath or be as pliable/flexible as any vinyl of any grade... cast, calendared or otherwise.

• This is a far stretch as being said, but imagine taking a snowball and packing it real hard. Now, dip it in some water and it will create a coating [old fashioned ice ball]... and when you throw it it will be very hard, but still splat upon impact. Now, take a rubber ball and coat it with ice water. It still has the protective coating, but when it's abused, it will break apart. Liquid or spray laminate are technically incompatible for use in relation with wraps and egress comply medias. They are meant to be pliable , but the liquid stuff is not.... not at all. So, since they are incompatible in this application, it would be safe to presume using liquid lams on wraps is a bad idea.

Now, if you're printing out a 20" x 48" panel on air-egress media and it's basically going on a flat surface of a van or sorts, it will work. You're not gonna be pulling and stretching this to go around corners or complex or compound curves or crevices.

Gino; I know better than to ever TRY to do it that way, I was just wondering how they could have possibly had it "work" for them in any instance.

Ango; could a different (shorter term/indoor?) vinyl have possibly been used (accidentally) causing material problems in this case? If it's only 1 batch that you're having problems with I would assume a materials problem.

 

[Gino]

Thanks for your advice, Gino.
But I'm not sure you understand ..
I do not shrink from the fact that it is a mistake to me and my way of working,
I do not want anyone to cheat and deceive, my job is not based on deception.
This client is very correct, and my good acquaintance.
My problem is I want to know about me and my future job.

I am the customer branded 20 vehicles last 5 years every 3 months.
The problem is that only 5 vehicles lamination changed color, and it did not last 5 or top 5
than the vehicle before 3 months, 9 months, 18 months .. therefore not linked to the vehicle that I could
to think that the poor lamination films or anything I have done on vehicles that are right.

I will in any case to take the blame upon himself.
But I worry if I do a rebranding customer's drivers continue to
washing the vehicle incorrectly, what should I do? ... That is my problem!
Do you need to constantly correct his mistakes?
Maybe the drivers (the workers) are lying customer (owner) not to maintain the service car wash?
I repeat that I never happened to all of my work experience ..

Sorry for my English, maybe not the best ..
I respected your response to this post ...

Well, to use the word lie so often is very strong words without any proof whatsoever. Be sure you know someone is lying before accusing them of it. That's a sure-fired way to lose a customer and if they talk to other potential customers.

If the prints were laminated correctly, they will under most cleanings hold up to almost any cleaners, high-pressure hoses and employee scrubbing. That's one of the key advantages to using a rigid laminate.

I'm not quite sure what.... the problem is that only 5 vehicles lamination changed color, and it did not last 5 or top 5
than the vehicle before 3 months, 9 months, 18 months .. therefore not linked to the vehicle that I could means ??

It's hard to pin-point your problem when not all of the facts are really here and the ones that are here.... you're the one making it wrong.

Are there any plans in your very near future to add a real laminating machine, so you could use the necessary tools and products for your customers ??

• Is this the way you do all of your customers wraps projects ??
• Are any other customers complaining ??
• Is this the only single person having problems ??
• Are these wraps encompassing the entire vehicle ??
• Are all of these vehicles identical projects ??
• How many times have these vehicles been wrapped and re-wrapped ??
• Could it be, you're not getting all the remaining residue off from the previous project ??
• Are you prepping the vehicles correctly ??
• Is the OralCal cast or calendared vinyl ??

 

[Ango]

I do not know English very well because I use harsh language such as "lies" .. I'm sorry.
-Other customers do not complain.
-Only one person has this problem.
-All the vehicles are identical projects
(5 of 20 vehicles but not connected with each other have this problem).
-No rough edges to vrappeš.
Look like this vehicle ...

 

[Gino]

Oh-h-h-h..... you're rolling this on after they're on the vehicles.

What you have there is called 'burning'. Just about every liquid clear burns anything it goes over top. If you're careful, you won't see this. However, it still takes place. Because the clears have a tendency to just make things usually a yellowish brown translucent appearance, it's called burning. When going over-top of many colors, it's not noticeable, but when you hit complete white or solid areas, you will quickly see the paint start to burn. It's kinda like getting a sunburn. It's hastens the pace.

An old clearpaint which didn't do this was Dana's paints from the West Coast..... but they're hard to get anymore, besides, it was more for rolling or spraying billboards and such. I don't know if it would work on digital media.

I thought you were printing, spraying or roller coating and then going back in for cutting.... then applying prints to vehicle.

This is a very amateurish method and quite capable of doing harm to someone's vehicle. If what I've explained so far is near what you're doing.... you are doing it 100% wrong...... Sorry.

 

[Ango]

The first step - printing and drying 24 hours
The second step - setting laminating roller and drying 24 hours
The third step - setting up printing on a vehicle
Am I wrong?

 

[Gino]

Alright, we're getting closer..............

Now, I don’t know about you’re procedure, but it doesn’t really look like that’s what was followed here.

You can clearly see there are streaks of dirt on the truck below the clear and under the clear, but not on top of the print, which indicates, the truck wasn’t even washed properly or prepped before putting anything down. This looks like you stuck the print onto the truck, then cleared with a roller and made lousy pulls and didn’t even bother to feather out your roller marks. The unevenness of your rolling technique speaks volumes.

If you don’t know any better…. that’s one thing, but to try and pass this off as industry standard…. nope, cannot do.


Also, what are all of those flakey things on the dark blue ??

Last thing…. where the streaks and roller marks appear in your sample…. is that on the truck body or is it covered with vinyl from top to bottom on all the trucks you have pictured….. both sides ??

 

[Ango]

This flakey on the blue surface of the snow, winter is here.
The truck was covered with vinyl from top to bottom .. this gray line is the lamination.
In this section clearly shows the difference lamination ...

 

[Gino]

So, what is this ?? You didn't laminate the entire area, just where there was ink and were kinda sloppy about it.

If you went the entire way, up and down, you wouldn't see it.

 

[Techman]

now i see it.
There is snow on the print. But those marks I thought were pressure washer marks are actually the liquid lam.

That is a totally different deal.
Yes you made a mistake. You must lam the entire sheet. Liquid or plastic no matter. The whole piece must be coated.

As for using liquid lam yes, It is done that way all the time. Flat surfaces and short term is Ok. But the entire piece must be coated.

I used to do trailers that changed the graphics every 6 months. We used liquid lam on a flat surface. It worked perfect well. But, we lamed the entire sheet. Long term use is not so good. As you see it changes over time.

 

[Ango]

Ok.. regardless.. lamination is not supposed to gray.
Thank you for everything ..

 

[Gino]

Ok.. regardless.. lamination is not supposed to gray.
Thank you for everything ..

No, you still are missing the point. Liquid lam will burn anything it goes on. It burned where you got a little sloppy and it's become quite evident you have done this wrong. Had you liquid laminated the entire print, you would not see this at all... at least not near as much.

As Tech has mentioned, some people still use liquid lam, but you must be consistent and do everything.... not just here and there.



So.... let's do this again.......

• Liquid laminate will grey or burn vinyl, ink and just about anything else you put it on.

• If you partially liquid laminate, only the parts which have clear on will show up as grey or burned.

 

[Dakotagrafx]

 

[Ango]

laminate is water-based, large amounts of water leads to the burning laminate ..
because laminate changes color ...
but regardless thank you to all the information

 

[Gino]

Ang....

I don't know where you are up coming up with these assumptions of yours, but NO again, it has nothing to do with being water-based. Solvent, oil and just about any-base you come up with.... they all tend to turn ANYTHING they are on... darker. They all tend to crack and make for problems down the road. It's just the nature of the beast.

Generally speaking, for anything you want to last more than 6 months SHOULD NOT HAVE LIQUID LAMINATE on it. It should have rigid laminate on it. Two totally different products, but both are made for the same application.

Not lecturing you, but don't want any future readers reading your posts and assuming the wrong things from what you've commented upon.

 

[Ango]

I am trying to find a solution to my problem.
Not only in communication with you.
A man from France told me this.
In direct communication, we come to that conclusion.
My English is bad because it obviously does not understand.
I can not explain my problem.
Sorry and thank you for the information you have given me.
RESPECT

 

[Baz]

I've never seen anyone get so much help and still feel like their problem is not understood.