Profiling Media

[Ditchmiester]

I'm looking to start color profiling the media we print on and would like to know exactly what I need to look at when i'm ready to purchase the correct hardware and software. I currently am Running Onyx Postershop 10.2 and I know I need to upgrade to Production house. I am printing with an HP L26500 and I see that it has the i1 logo on the front but do I need additional hardware from X-rite to profile my media. I recieved a quote from Advantage Sign Supply on what I needed and they recommended the X-rite i1 Basic Pro 2. Will this do what i'm looking to do and print very close to specific PMS numbers? Any help is greatly appreciated. Also the media I normally print on is Oracal 3164G and 3651G Transparent along with .010" Polycarbonate that is always backed with white. If it makes a difference in what media i'm trying to profile.

Thanks!

 

[Bly]

You can't use the internal spectro for profiling.
Have a look on the Onyx site at which devices are supported.
You won't need profiling software really if you run all your printers through onyx.
Profiling in v10 is easy. The only settings you need to enter manually are the ink limits.

 

[ProWraps]

you will need a spectro... i1 is manual. nightmare.

try to get something automated.

we have the caldera easy color.

working great so far.

 

[Hotspur]

Yes the onboard spectro on the L26 is just for recalibrating existing profiles - to build your own custom profiles from scratch you will need to upgrade to ProductionHouse and buy an i1 - yes its manual but its no great hardship to use unless you plan on doing hundreds of profiles.
You won't need any extra software - Onyx PH has everything you need.
If you are doing any clear or translucent profiling you will need a much more expensive spectro - the i1 only does reflective readings not transmissive but as your clear media is always white backed this shouldn't be a problem.
The automated profile workflow in Onyx is fine and does a good job on most substrates.
One tip - when you are selecting the target gamut in automated ink restrictions don't be tempted to go for a highly saturated option straight off - start with uncoated media as your gamut target and see what it looks like as many people start too juicy and struggle with too much ink.
The number of PMS numbers you can hit depends on the media's ability to take ink.
The more ink you can lay down the better your gamut & the higher your hit rate.
Assuming you do a good profile then the PMS hit rate will be different for every media - Onyx will show you the hit rate for every profile in Media Manager - Tools and Reports - Gamut Report. This will help you judge the gamut and DeltaE scores.
The following will help explain ink limits - its a little out of date but the logic holds good.
http://onyxtalk.com/thread-understanding-ink-limits

 

[mzoty]

Hi,

In fact you can use the built in i1 of the L26500 for making profiles with Onyx PH. You can choose the L26500 device in the media manger of the Onyx. The feature of this process is a limited that means you cannot use extrem or ultra profiling chart for making ICCs. So the profiles that you can make with the built-in device will "simple".

If you want to make good profiles you have to buy an additonal spectro device like i1 pro 2.

 

[FrankW]

In fact you can use the built in i1 of the L26500 for making profiles with Onyx PH.

Exactly. You can set up the L26500 as the measuring device for linearisation and calibration in Onyx Productionhouse, and it works.

The feature of this process is a limited that means you cannot use extrem or ultra profiling chart for making ICCs. So the profiles that you can make with the built-in device will "simple".

That is - as far as I think - because of the swatch size for using the internal i1 is very large. For 1'000 or 2'000 patches you need a lot of media.

 

[FrankW]

Enclosed Picture:

In the Printer the first 132 Patches of a ICC-Calibration Chart printed out of Onyx for the internal spectrophotometer.
Taped on the Vinyl in the Printer: a 900 Patches-Chart for our Barbieri Spectro LFP.

 

[FrankW]

you will need a spectro... i1 is manual. nightmare.

try to get something automated.

There is a scantable available (i1iO) for the i1.

 

[MachServTech]

I have an i1 Basic for sale. It will interface with Onyx Productionhouse to build nice profiles.

asking $475.

Just PM me if you are interested.

I was planning to put it up on Ebay for $550 later this week, but might as well keep it in the family.

 

[Hotspur]

Just for clarity

Hi,

In fact you can use the built in i1 of the L26500 for making profiles with Onyx PH. You can choose the L26500 device in the media manger of the Onyx. The feature of this process is a limited that means you cannot use extrem or ultra profiling chart for making ICCs. So the profiles that you can make with the built-in device will "simple".

If you want to make good profiles you have to buy an additional spectro device like i1 pro 2.

Just to qualify you cannot use the built-in spectro of the L25/L26/L28 latex printers to build icc profiles at all regardless of chart size etc.
The full Onyx profiling process requires four steps - ink restrictions, linearisation, ink limits and icc profile.
The issue is you cannot use the built-in spectro to do the final icc calibration which is mandatory to produce a custom media profile - you have to have a separate i1 or similar to do this.
There are no 'simple' profiles - you either have one or you don't - and if you only have the in-built spectro then you can't build a media profile - just recalibrate (relinearize) an existing one.
This confusion comes about because the same in-built spectro is present in the HP Z6100 / Z6200 where it CAN build an icc profile and thus allows you to build a complete and full custom media profile.
But in the Latex this device is only utilized to do linearizations on existing profiles.

 

[dypinc]

Just to qualify you cannot use the built-in spectro of the L25/L26/L28 latex printers to build icc profiles at all regardless of chart size etc.
The full Onyx profiling process requires four steps - ink restrictions, linearisation, ink limits and icc profile.
The issue is you cannot use the built-in spectro to do the final icc calibration which is mandatory to produce a custom media profile - you have to have a separate i1 or similar to do this.
There are no 'simple' profiles - you either have one or you don't - and if you only have the in-built spectro then you can't build a media profile - just recalibrate (relinearize) an existing one.
This confusion comes about because the same in-built spectro is present in the HP Z6100 / Z6200 where it CAN build an icc profile and thus allows you to build a complete and full custom media profile.
But in the Latex this device is only utilized to do linearizations on existing profiles.

I am assuming you are only talking about the ONYX rip here. There are other RIPs that can build profiles with the in-built spectro on the L25/L26/L28 latex printers.

 

[Bly]

Even if if was possible you'd have to wonder how accurate the readings would be with all the buckling media gets from the heat.

 

[Hotspur]

I am assuming you are only talking about the ONYX rip here. There are other RIPs that can build profiles with the in-built spectro on the L25/L26/L28 latex printers.

Thats right - the original poster has Onyx so that's why this info applies to him. They tried it and as the other post suggests the results were inconsistent due to the heat and media movement so its something that needs to be done with an external device and not with the internal spectro.

You can purchase an i1 for the price of a single days profiling from an outside agency and this will stand you in good stead for years - it will also profile your monitor which is an additional benefit!

 

[FrankW]

Just to qualify you cannot use the built-in spectro of the L25/L26/L28 latex printers to build icc profiles at all regardless of chart size etc.
The full Onyx profiling process requires four steps - ink restrictions, linearisation, ink limits and icc profile.

You can set up the built in spectro for every single step of the calibration process (see enclosed pictures 1, 2, 3). It is the same in FlexiCloud. The swatch of my sample photo is an ICC-Swatch.

This confusion comes about because the same in-built spectro is present in the HP Z6100 / Z6200 where it CAN build an icc profile and thus allows you to build a complete and full custom media profile.

I think your confusion is a result of that the HP Z6100/Z6200 have a built-in Color Management, with the possibility to create internal profiles for using this printers without a software-RIP. The Latex don't have that.

 

[Ditchmiester]

Thanks for the Help!

I appreciate everyone's input and I have learned a lot. I am hoping that MachServ still has his for sale and i'm going to purchase that one. I am going to probably be coming back here more often now that I have a new toy that I will need help with.

 

[Hotspur]

You can set up the built in spectro for every single step of the calibration process (see enclosed pictures 1, 2, 3). It is the same in FlexiCloud. The swatch of my sample photo is an ICC-Swatch.



I think your confusion is a result of that the HP Z6100/Z6200 have a built-in Color Management, with the possibility to create internal profiles for using this printers without a software-RIP. The Latex don't have that.

Yes I understand - what I'm trying to say is they tried it - i.e. it's there in the software, but the results were poor and thus the route is to use the i1 (or similar) out of the printer - I don't suggest anyone use the on-board spectro

Looks like this is the route this poster is going to use so all will be OK hopefully and the profiles will be accurate.