Q: Excel & Quickbook not cutting it? ~~~ A: FileMaker Pro!

[GypsyGraphics]

About a year ago I posted here asking what software people were using to run their businesses (quotes, invoices, contact management, accounting). At the time I was using Excel, which didn't come close to meeting my needs. Some people suggested Quickbooks, but that fell short as well. I spent months searching for ONE solution. I didn't expect it to be an easy transition, I'm pretty set in my ways after 14 years… I hate the business end of business so I have a very limited interest in learning business software.

I've been meaning to start this thread for a while, but just haven't been able to figure out how to tell you all how great this solution is with a brief description that won't bore you to tears. So, I've given up worrying about boring you because YOU NEED THIS info…. so bored or not, keep reading IT'S WORTH IT! (i'm talking to you Pete)

For the past several months I've been using FileMaker Pro 11 www.filemaker.com and it is in fact the be-all, end-all single solution I was hoping for.

Upon quick review of the software, i wasn't seeing much hope of it fitting my needs till my husband did a little research that lead him to FM Starting Point solution from Richard Carlton Consulting www.fmstartingpoint.com. It was completely FREE and there is even support provided for it.

The FM Starting Point solution is already really good out-of-the-box, however, it didn’t match my business workflow exactly, but there were so many features I liked and adopted and others my husband added to better fit the way I do business.

The features we added or enhanced were:

Enhanced the “Projects” module to better reflect my workflow (i'll explain in more detail if anyone cares to know).

Added a “Payments” module to record each Receivable (checks, credit card or cash payments).

Enhanced the “Products” module to support both products and services (taxes are different for each).

Created custom reporting: to support Invoicing on my own letterhead, support my quarterly Sales Tax payments to the State and for tracking my business operations.

Really, just about anything you could possibly need (ie POS), there is a ready-made solution for.

As I said, the FM Starting Point solution is already awesome and I can't emphasize enough that what made FileMaker Pro customizable to those who don't know a thing about programing is the Starting Point solution from Richard Carlton Consulting www.fmstartingpoint.com.

If any of my enhancements sound of interest, I could share more details of what they are and what they do.

 

[iSign]

Thanks for the heads up... I was just trying to pull some numbers out of QBP to plug into a cash-flow spreadsheet I made, and the labor involved was tremendous... And after 90 minutes, I did some comparison calculations and learned that I still have some major errors and omissions somewhere... Anyway, no software will prevent all my abilities to foul up numbers, but this situation showed me it wouldn't hurt to look at other options for my books.

I already have File Maker 10.0 so I'll look into that free thing for sure!

 

[GB2]

I have to agree with you that FileMaker Pro is an excellent database program. It has tremendous capability and flexibility, similar to Microsoft Access but far superior. There is a great support system out there for the program and lots of developers that will provide anything you can think of from free programs to custom built solutions. It kind of works like the app stores now for cell phones. People should understand however, that when you buy the program all you get it a blank screen and everything that you do with it has to be created or provided by a resource developer. I used to be a FileMaker developer a long time ago, up to version 5, but haven't had a copy of FileMaker since then. I always thought that it could be the all in one solution for this business, just as you hoped for G.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I agree it's a great program. Very easy to use and very powerful ... but pretty much only if you accept that it is its own thing and not much else out there will interface with it. I licensed my first copy back when I had a Mac SE in the late 80's or early 90's.

I upgraded to version 4 Developer's Edition in 2000 and with a bit of tutorials was able to write a price estimating application that I still use to this day. We also do our invoicing and customer history using another database I put together in Filemaker 4.

Recently we had a problem and lost our customer database. Went to get the backup that had been setup for automatic saving only to find that it had stopped doing its thing in 2008. So we lost about three years worth of data. That's not Filemaker's fault of course but we decided it was about time we upgraded to the current version 11.

This wasn't a good experience at all. The first thing we found out was that none of our relational database files would upgrade successfully due to major changes in the structure of the application. Then we found out that we would need to license three copies at $295 each to equal the legal multiple user features we had always enjoyed with FM 4. Version 4 allows a user to log onto an open file as a guest and still use it including entering new data. Version 11 blocks you unless you have a second license. Apple doesn't make that clear on their Filemaker.com website when they state that "up to 9 users may use Filemaker simultaneously".

So as an old user I found that Apple had not provided me with an upgrade path for my established files and wanted to charge me triple for capabilities I had always enjoyed as a version 4 licensee.

In summary, I recommend Filemaker as a way to do some pretty neat stuff easily albeit pretty much in a self contained world. I do not recommend the company behind the product after experiencing their lack of concern for providing a forward path for their older customers, their greediness and their lack of honesty in their advertising.

Anybody wanna buy a licensed copy of Filemaker Pro 11?

 

[GypsyGraphics]

fred, i'm brand new to FileMaker Pro, so didn't have to deal with any upgrade issues, and i really don't know enough to comment... BUT, for the sake of debate (and living up to my new title) i'm wondering if upgrading from version 4 to 11, that the technology has changed so much that's practically a different program.

as far as not playing nice with other programs, importing and exporting Excel files shouldn't be a problem. i'm actally not sure why my husband exports to Excel, but i know it does it. and i know he was very impressed with some aspect of that because he called me over to see.... but ummm... i gave him a "well now, isn't that nice" because personally i don't ever plan on using Excel again, but he was please, so i was happy for him.

don't want to wake him now, but tomorrow i'll ask him about what you mentioned.

 

[Fred Weiss]

GG I can't tell you exactly what the changes were but they changed the way to data itself is stored and they dropped certain commands. I think it was this latter change that caused my problems because all of my single, flat databases are completely fine and all of my multi-file, relational databases are unusable in version 11. The upgrade required me to re-match every field in every database that was linked to any other. The problem came up with some fields simply were no longer there.

I am still using my version 4 and we are simply now more vigilant about checking that our backups are working as expected. It was always a very stable application and, frankly, I don't see enough different or improved in version 11 to even justify going through the grief of upgrading. The only downside for me is that I would, for example, be unable to share files with you or anyone using version 5 or later if there was a reason to do so. As far as I could see, getting data to Excel or anywhere else still involved exporting in a universal format and then importing into Excel.

Some of these things have been automated by developers ... which is great. But then you have to get into how to modify what they did to suit your needs. For example, I had thought that I would just pick out a developed solution and abandon my self taught one. I immediately hit into a major change that had to be made. Every solution I looked at treated sales tax by the product and not by the customer. Yet, at least here in Florida, it is all about whether or not the customer is claiming an exemption due to reselling the product he makes with what he buys from me. In other words, the same product is taxable if I sell it to an end user but isn't taxable if I sell it to a reseller, a sign company, across state lines, a government agency, or a tax exempt non-profit organization, church or charity.

 

[GB2]

Fred....What are you looking to get for that v11....I might be interested

G....yes, the new v11 is a very different program from the earlier versions

 

[Fred Weiss]

Fred....What are you looking to get for that v11....I might be interested

G....yes, the new v11 is a very different program from the earlier versions

How's $200 including UPS Ground shipping? List is $295. I bought it from an Amazon dealer for $259 and it is a legit new copy of Filemaker Pro V11.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

Some of these things have been automated by developers ... which is great. But then you have to get into how to modify what they did to suit your needs. For example, I had thought that I would just pick out a developed solution and abandon my self taught one. I immediately hit into a major change that had to be made. Every solution I looked at treated sales tax by the product and not by the customer. Yet, at least here in Florida, it is all about whether or not the customer is claiming an exemption due to reselling the product he makes with what he buys from me. In other words, the same product is taxable if I sell it to an end user but isn't taxable if I sell it to a reseller, a sign company, across state lines, a government agency, or a tax exempt non-profit organization, church or charity.

i can tell you this much fred, when my husband first tried to modify FM, he was quite frustrated every time i gave it a test run and said... but i need it to do this or that's not going to work for my business. he's a very smart guy, but he NOT a programer and SOOO NOT someone who like fiddling with software... but from the day he added that free solution from Richard Carlton Consulting... i swear any little thing i asked for he was able to do in minutes. something about the way they show their work within the program. i'm sure i'm not explaining that right. all i know is configuring the varying taxes wasn't a problem and while i rarely need to worry about selling for resale, i do have the option of unchecking a tax box for either of the tax rates i use. but i have no doubt, based on the fact that every single thing i asked for, he's been able to do with ease, that he could make specific clients non-taxable.

if you're interested i can describe some of the things that i asked to either be changed or added that weren't built in options. once he didn't mind doing it, i didn't have to settle any pre-configuration or give up a single feature i wanted. it was so cool... he just kept asking "anything else you want it to do?"

 

[RiXaX]

we provide our CPA with a current copy of out Quick Books file and he plugs it in and does our stuff. Do you have an accountant that knows and owns that program and can work from it without needing to re enter data?

 

[petesign]

At this point, I am open to many options. Thanks for the advice GG, I am gonna take a look and see if I can make it do what needs to be done.

I am just getting tired of chasing my own tail all day and waiting to start working once all the phone calls stop and employees go home. Something to track a job from start to finish, ease of invoicing, and a point of sale machine in one would fit the bill.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

we provide our CPA with a current copy of out Quick Books file and he plugs it in and does our stuff. Do you have an accountant that knows and owns that program and can work from it without needing to re enter data?

Let me explain what my need was that FM went above and beyond in meeting. I'm the sole proprietor of a business that i never expected to be responsible for, I started out designing piss ant stuff free for friends as a creative outlet. I went back to college in my thirties to take ONE class, Illustrator, which turned into two years because i loved it. The business thing just happened, what didn't happen was, the desire or ability to deal with the money end and to this day I hate that part of what I do. I'm an organized person who doesn't like wasting time and doing something I wasn't good at; using multiple programs, frustrated me to no end.

The areas of my business i wanted to all work together was, managing contact will clients, tracking of projects and invoicing. Essentially every aspect of a job from the time a client calls to talk about it, till the job goes out the door.... my entire work flow. And i wanted ONE solution.

My husband does my accounting and said getting the information he needed from FileMaker, to do my taxes was a matter of pushing a button to get the needed report... a tremendous time saver over what he had to do manually when I was using Excel. Probably similar to getting a report from QuickBooks.

QuickBooks I'm sure does a lot of the same things FileMaker Pro does, but with two major drawbacks. Last year when I was researching my options, contact management was only offered as an on-line service, for Mac. I absolutely did not want all my client and project information to be on-line, not to mention the fact that there were fees associated with that service. The other major issued, and this is a biggy... I would have to change the way I work, to use Quick Books. Whereas FileMaker Pro can easily modified to match every aspect of MY workflow. I'm too old and too stubborn to be forced do a job I don't even like in a way I don't want to do it.

If you are happy with the way you currently mange clients, projects, quoting and invoicing, I'm not suggesting you switch... but if, like me, your find yourself thinking on a daily basis "there's got to be a better way"... FileMaker Pro is a REALLY nice single solution.

 

[GB2]

Fred, that's a good offer that someone should take you up on but after a little research, I'm going to need the Advanced version. Thanks!

 

[GypsyGraphics]

i'd like to make an offer to S101 Premium Subscribers.
(because, as they say, membership has it privileges)

i didn't have the knowledge or foresight to see that FileMaker Pro was going to work for me until my husband built my database.

i'd hate for someone to be in the same position i was, to have a great tool and not realize it.
so, if you own FileMaker Pro or are thinking of downloading the demo... pm me if you'd like a copy of my database.

my husband has a lot of hours in this... no sense in reinventing the wheel if you can use what he's already done.
even if it's not exactly what you need, i'm sure much of it would be very useful.

NOTE: this was built using the free download solution Starting Point, from
Richard Carlton Consulting www.fmstartingpoint.com anyone can download this on their own.
no funny business here... what i am sharing is MY database (my husband's time and efforts).

 

[The Vector Doctor]

can you give us screenshots of the various input screens on this software? i looked into alot of invoicing software until I came upon the one I use but am open to other options. I considered FM but was afraid it was too complex. Someone told me that the software is very complex which is both good and bad. It took this individual a long time to get his database/setup to where it is to this day. It was not "plug and play"

So I looked elsewhere as I did not want to spend too much time setting it up and being disappointed and lost time/money

Currently I use a program called Billings - not perfect, so it would be interesting to see other options

Dan Antonelli mentioned Quickbooks for the Mac was buggy for him and this is the only other full featured invoice/accounting software for the mac. Billings is not accounting software, it only does invoices

 

[John Butto]

sourceforge

http://sourceforge.net/search/?q=filemaker+pro
This is the place for open source software and it is free of course.
I use NeoOffice for the Mac instead of Word, and it always has updates and it has spreadsheets and the rest.

 

[eye4clr]

I LOVE filemaker. I do all job tracking and quoting on it. Because I'm not very good at it, I lost track of the hundreds of hours I've put into it. But it does exactly what I need, no more, no less. I can do 99% of quotes in about 30 seconds, email it out as a simple text file that my mobile customers can use and see right away, and have an easily searchable record of everything. Don't know how I'd do this without it.

I have it figure all the scrap on sheet and roll jobs, plus the material wasted with load and unload, and budget for 20% to go in the dumpster for whatever reason. I can see pricing metrics like profit per hour, profit percent relative to COG, and the time impact cutting and packaging has on a job's profit per hour. Invaluable stuff to me.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

can you give us screenshots of the various input screens on this software?

Eric, tell ya what i'm-a-gonna-do... over the weekend i'll do a screen cast showing you how to:

set your starting invoice number (a one time thing)
create accounts
create contacts within an account
create notes (could be anything, in either or both accounts or individual contacts)
enter products & pricing
enter services & pricing
create a project
create an invoice (related to a project)
output an PDF invoice (plain or with your letterhead as a background)
enter payments (and scanned image of check)

IMPORTANT NOTE: my database is a highly modified version of the free Starting Point solution from Richard Carlton Consulting www.fmstartingpoint.com ,
modified to suite my needs. Starting Point has documentation AND SUPPORT, which might be perfect for you out the box.

the reason i'm going to do a screen cast is so you'll have something to reference, that explains how to use my database.
as far as support goes, unless your pouty face works on my husband, the extent of support i can offer is, this right here... "atta-boy, you can do it!"

 

[Dan Antonelli]

Using QB Pro for MAC - upgraded recently to get the server version so employees could access the database simultaneously (6 people trying to share one file sucked). Anyway, since purchasing it in December, and installing in January - Inuit has released approx (no joke) 10 - 15 updates to it.

Lets just say its rare when it works and two people can get in simultaneously. Problem is there's 15 years of data, and there is no great way to import it into another program.

Lately its a bit more stable, but still crashes occassionally. Its almost like it was never Beta tested. One week alone they release updates twice. Cmon!

 

[Custom_Grafx]

I feel behind...

I only use excel (around 5 workbooks), 2 PDF forms, and an online calendar.

My Excel expenses workbook's formulas have my numbers ready for the accountant at any time without really doing anything.

Another worksheet calculates profit per job. I also have formulas which can show me what's happening in a month, quarter, year etc.

Excel (and from what I'm reading filemaker), are great programs because they are 100% tailored to your needs.

I have been advised to use accounting software but for the 6th year running, I refuse to. Am way to spoilt being able to create whatever formula I want in excel on demand and having the flexibility.

Speaking to people who swear accounting software is the best and only option, I have realised that the reason for their choice is USUALLY because of their unwillingness to learn how to use excel and formulas. Others simply don't have the time to learn, and others have more complex setups where excel might not be enough.