Random Next Day Bubbles

[TheSnowman]

What's to de-gas? It's latex? I've literally printed stuff for 4 years on this printer and this just happened for the first time. I'm not saying your wrong, but I don't know what has to outgas on a latex machine.

And Gino, what's DP mean? I haven't been active on the forums much lately, must be new lingo.

I just learned the hard way. Before lamination of any vinyl. You must let product degas let the VOC dissipate. If not that gas causes bubbles.

 

[Johnny Best]

Are your saying the bubble will not lay down after you push it, then the adhesive has been compromised by some sort of contaminate on the metal. If you poke the bubble with a needle will it stick down flat then? Good luck. MaxMetal has a new carrier cover on them and maybe as others and myself suggest is to clean them off before applying.

 

[TheSnowman]

If you poke the bubble, it will lay down...but on air release, it's always just worked out when I pushed it out. It's just so weird that it's morphed into something NOT air release. I guess I'm going to be cleaning stuff off now as these were new boards from Grimco.

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

If you mounted the print to a board the air channels were "crushed" as they do when applied to get even adhesion to the board so it makes sense that the air release isn't working anymore.

 

[Gino]

Stands for Double Post, which is inaccurate, also. I had a post for another thread and somehow it ended up in this thread.

Anyway, with air release vinyl, cast or calendared..... those little air channels, if not properly squeegeed out, will hold very minute amounts of air in them. Once some time goes by, (according to humidity, temperature and other incidentals), they tend to migrate towards a common area and form larger amounts, sometimes becoming bubbles. Get enough of them and the substrate will look blistered.... much like your pictures. It might be a lotta work, but before you tear everything off or start over, just try applying heat, preferably with a torch and use a hefty felt squeegee on it's side and burnish it down. We never seem to need to poke a hole, just move it around in a circular motion and it will go away completely. If you wanna pop a hole, go ahead, it will work a little faster.

 

[CDS PROFESSIONAL SERVICES]

DP

Sorry I am new to this forum. What is DP?

 

[Gino]

Sorry I am new to this forum. What is DP?

See post #25

 

[Johnny Best]

Dumb Putz

 

[TheSnowman]

UPDATE: I stripped the vinyl off of one of the sign boards, cleaned it with alcohol, reprinted one of the pieces (as to see if it's consistent before reprinting a whole flippin order) and laid it down. Looked perfect, and I was happy, but decided to let it sit a day just to make sure it didn't attack again. Guess what, came in this morning to check on it, and it looks just like all of the others now. Bubbled up all over the place.

I'm blaming it on another Avery failure at this point. They screwed me with the reflective on a bunch of cop cars back in the day, and now this is attack 2.0. I emailed Grimco, so we'll see what they say, but at this point, I'm pretty set to never buy anything Avery ever again. Of course it couldn't have happened on a small order. It happened on something that was $1,500.

 

[Jb1983]

I’d bet dollars to donuts that it’s from not enough pressure when applied.

I find I need to really push hard on the squeegee to avoid this. Using a big squeegee and doing a quick lay down with air egress vinyl this is your problem.

Next time you lay one down with the big squeegee go over it right away with heat, I bet you will start to see the bubbles form in front of your eyes!! At this point it will be early enough to get them out, but overnight most of the adhesive has started to “wet out” so you’ve now got a nightmare on your hands.

Personally I only use the big squeegee for NON air egress vinyls. If I were doing those signs I would either run they my laminator or just apply by hand with a small squeegee doing the hinge method from the middle.

 

[TheSnowman]

So if I accept that theory, it still doesn't explain why it's just now happening after using this same combo for years. I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't jive up with anything else. I lay down cast air release, calendered air release everyday on way bigger projects with a big squeegee. This sign was only 12" tall, so it's not like I couldn't apply pressure to it. It's the same as I install everything with a window squeegee. Just trying to figure out why it's an "all of the sudden" scenario.

 

[equippaint]

Do the same thing on a different substrate and see what happens, if nothing then try a different vinyl with the same print on the same material. Maybe it will start to narrow it down. You would think that if it was an issue with the adhesive that you'd see the bubbles on the roll before it was even printed? Are you mounting right after printing? Could the latex heat be doing something screwy with the adhesive and releasing more solvents? This is a good one for William Shatner.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I agree with equippaint... It's time to take the scientific method to your issue and figure this out. Different substraits and materials, different squeegee. I also agree with applying heat to immediately see if you have bubbles, or lay the signs out in the sun.

 

[TheSnowman]

So here's what happened for the end of the story. Called Grimco, they said it looks like a bad roll, asked for the lot number, and said throw it in the trash and we'll refund your money. I needed to get the job out, so I printed it on some cast oracal that I had here, printed, laminated, mounted, waited two days...still looked as good as the day it laid down, and had no bubbles showing up, same results as I've always had in the past.

So I'm saying it was a bad roll of vinyl. I gave Avery another chance after the great reflective failure of years past, and they bit me again, so for me...I'm done with Avery forever. They cost me a couple days of my time on this one. I ordered a roll of 3651RA for my "everyday vinyl" prints now, and we'll see how this goes. Either way, job is with the customer, they're happy, and it's behind me now.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I have had the exact same thing happen when I have forgotten to remove the protective film from the substrate. Might seem obvious, but it is easier to do than you would think!

 

[Johnny Best]

I like the Orafol 3551RA, glad you figured it out, never have been a fan of Avery.

 

[HulkSmash]

We direct print stuff like this, but before flatbed times, we used IJ35C WITH Oracal 210 Lam. Great combo.

 

[TheSnowman]

I actually had to replace a few in this order for ones that already faded from two years ago (and they're only out 4-5 months of the year) that were flat bed printed. I subbed them out and was super less than happy with results so went old school and just did it the long way to get the life out of them they needed.

As for not removing the protective film...we removed it all. The stuff peeled off horrible, so it was holding on good, and we did them all as a pile peeling them off before we started laying them down, so we didn't miss any, but I agree, it would expect it to show results similar to what I got if you left that on I'd guess.