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RapidTac and Wet Mounting?

Rooster

Rooster

New Member
Aaaaargh!

I've been struggling with some small backlit panels that require a wet reverse mount to 3/8" Lexan as the substrate's been cut to size already.

I've been trying the water and drop of soap method, but it's not going very well for some reason. No matter how much I squeegee the water gets trapped. I've tried just a little water, a lot of water, etc it just seems to get sealed in. Even running it through the laminator afterward will not squeeze the liquid out.

The backlit panels have had the adhesive applied to the front side and because it's a polycarb base to to it it just doesn't flex easily and the adhesive has quite the bite and obviously no air channels.

Does rapidtac make this process easier? Does it have more viscosity to allow it to squeeze through smaller gaps?

Is there another method that might work better? I'm at my wits end with this.
 
Jester1167

Jester1167

Premium Subscriber
I have not used water and soap, only rapidtac.

First make sure you have a perfect squeegee. Any knicks will leave bubbles of solution. Second if its possible to intall it without mask, do it without. Any imperfections in the mask will telegraph through. On large pieces I will spay the substrate and the vinyl. Spraying both and the table around the substate will keep static from pulling crap onto the vinyl and substate.

When installing without mask I spay the back of the vinyl to help the squeegee glide over the material. If you do notice a bubble you can usually push it out to the edge for about 5 to 10 minutes with sufficent squeege pressure. Be careful, if the bubble is sealed in and you push too hard you can wrinkle or tear the vinyl.

Good luck.
 
gabagoo

gabagoo

New Member
a drop of soap may not be enough. Depending on how hard your water is you may need more soap. I have never used 1 drop in a 1 litre sprayer, maybe 10 -15 drops works fine. I also spray the back side of the vinyl and the substrate itself and that allows it to slide easier.
 
Pat Whatley

Pat Whatley

New Member
You're gonna get answers all over the board on this one. The only thing that gets people riled up more than Rapid Tac is Sergio.

Personally I'd mount them dry if at all possible. If not I would use Rapid Tac over my personal mix in a heartbeat. I don't know why, the ingredients in Rapid Tac are pretty simple, but the stuff just works like it says it will if you use it like it says to use it. I use about a gallon of it every year and it certainly has it's place in a shop.

Honestly though, knowing that opinions are so varied I'd suggest just calling them and getting the sample kit and trying it for yourself. There's something to be said for somebody who believes in his products enough to send you free samples of them to try for yourself.
 
C

CentralSigns

New Member
I havent figured out Rapidtac and generally dry install in halves. The Rapidtac seems to get everythoing too wet and affects the adhesive negatively. Ther isn't anything better then some good pressure on a good squeege.
 
C

CentralSigns

New Member
Not really sure why just doesn't stick well, its like it washed the adhesive off. Applying it to 14 or 15 sq ft flst lay pieces. Seems to be near edges, maybe I use too much. The only thing I find it good for is layerd stuff like lettering.
 
jmb474

jmb474

New Member
I have found that on some larger lays that it is easier to use rapidtac to assist with the install and I havent had any problems with the edges not sticking. I just prep the substrate well and then lay it.
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
well, its like it washed the adhesive off.
Click to expand...

In all the years I've done vinyl work. I have never observed any rapid tac product act like that or cause any problems when installing vinyl. And, I have never heard of this phenomenon even discussed or mentioned ever before...

EXCEPT when using the rapid remover or some other adhesive remover and not cleaning correctly afterwards..
 
BobM

BobM

New Member
I use Rapid Prep, Rapid Tac, and Rapid Remove all the time. When ever possible I apply dry, but when you have reverse cut, it's so much easier to drop the "macho-dry" thing and get the vinyl down smooth and bubble free the first time.

Be sure your workbench is clean before applying the transfer paper. I take a paper towel sprayed with a little Rapid Tac II and go over the table, the back of the release liner, and the application surface as I'm working to get rid of any dust particles that pop up as you're working.

Never had a problem with the adhesive except when I grabbed the wrong bottle and tried a wet application with :Oops:Rapid Remove last week:Oops:. I now color the pump sprayers with a Sharpie.
 
Rooster

Rooster

New Member
Thanks guys. Because this adhesive is being placed over the printed surface and the plexi acts as basically a 3/8" clear laminate (which looks awesome when it works), the hinge methods are out of the question as they leave visible lines behind on the image. The media being mounted is also a double stack of backlit materials laminated together so it's not very flexible.

The dry mount method is out for the same reason, plus the customer supplied plexi has been pre-cut to size, so a dry mount with or without a laminator leaves the same lines behind in the image.

I'll try adding some more soap. I was not aware hard water made a difference (ours is very hard). If that doesn't work I'll grab some rapidtac after the holidays.
 
gabagoo

gabagoo

New Member
with a reverse or second surface application you are almost forced to use liquids.
The only scary part is that if you have large areas of dark colours then, sometimes you get that fog that can appear between the vinyl and the acrylic. I know it is caused by the adhesive getting wet and over time it will go away. I just wish I knew a fast way to get rid of it.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Pat Whatley said:
How come every single time this topic comes up the first reaction is to try more soap?
Click to expand...




:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: because most here think back to how slippery things get in the shower............. :doh:


I don't know about the vinyl you're using, but some brands and types use aqueous based adhesives which counteract each other when using the wet method. Kapco used to do this and not notify you what adhesive was on the back. I learned that a long long time ago.... the hard way.

I think everyone uses/used a wet type of application somewhere in their career. Mostly newbies use the wet method until they feel confident enough to ween themselves off it, but pressure is still the part that needs to be addressed when either dry or wet applying vinyl. Hard deliberate strokes with a good squeegee is what will get the air out from under your vinyl.
 
Rooster

Rooster

New Member
It's an optically clear adhesive applied over a double stacked set of backlit panels being reverse applied to a very rigid clear substrate.

There's no real flex in either the media or the substrate. It's no problem working with the adhesive when I dry laminate the two pieces of backlit together and as mentioned earlier a dry mount is impossible as the substrate's been cut to size already and it leaves visible marks in the adhesive which is sandwiched between the print surface and the plexi.

I've dry and wet mounted plenty of vinyl in the past without issue. This combination of materials is kicking my ass though. It definitely not your standard vinyl or mylar wet mount.

Maybe the thickness and inflexibility of the media is preventing the squeegee from applying a firm edge through the two panels of backlit materials. When combined they're about 18-20 mils thick and they can't be bent at sharp angles or it will crease the media and leave visible lines in the adhesive. So no regular dry mount or hinge methods will work.
 
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