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Rare problem with combining

Discussion in 'Corel' started by SouthPaw, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Member

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    Hey fellow CorelHeads,

    This happens every so often...an inside object will remain solid within the outside object after I combine the two (the inner object should become a hole in the outer object).

    Any time it happens it seems very persnickety about that particular curve set-up...yet careful examination reveal no apparent reason for this...

    Anyone else encounter this? Solutions?

    It's not a terrible problem...it will still cut correctly...it just looks bad on the screen and seems like it shouldn't be happening at all.

    thanks in advance for any hints or clues or suggestions.

    --william bass
     
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  2. ChiknNutz

    ChiknNutz Major Contributor

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    Hmm, was having this very problem a day or so ago. Ended having to really screw around with it. What I did was put a thin rectangle that would go across the bad area and the outer profile of the object. Then I trimmed the object with the thin rectangle. Then trimmed object with original part that previously didn't want to trim. Then went back in and node-edited to finally get it to work. Like I said, a lot of messing around just to get it to work. Problem is, don't know why it does it with some objects? Would love to hear from someone that does!
     
  3. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Member

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    It seems to happen mostly with LetterHead fonts...but I've seen it happen other times too (I think).

    Here is an example...Eclat mixed with Steven's Percepta Bold (Letterhead Font).

    I tried the "am" Eclat with a cap "B" from Eclat...worked fine...not with the Percepta Bold, though.

    (there should be a hole punched into the "a" like the two black objects did to the "B"...what gives???)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. ChiknNutz

    ChiknNutz Major Contributor

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    The one I had a problem with last was a customer supplied file - pretty clean for a customer file I might add, and the problem area was a text-converted-to-curves element (original font unknown).
     
  5. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Major Contributor

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    Chances are.....

    that there is an additional object on top of itself.
     
  6. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    Check for a second identical vector on top of the first. Simply select it by clicking on it and delete it. Refresh your monitor. If a second vector was there, you will be left with just one and nothing further is needed. If there was no second vector, then Undo to restore the vector you deleted.

    The problem exists in Adobe Illustrator if any merging or cutouts have been done on any paths. There will often be a second path created on combined objects which has to be deleted.

    It is also possible that the vector is not a closed loop. This could cause any number of strange display but would still cut okay. the remedy would be to find the open point and close it.
     
  7. Greg

    Greg Member

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    I've found a lot of the converted vectors have that problem. Problem is its difficult to tell when the layers are one on top of the other and exactly the same.

    I had some graphics that were over cutting two, sometimes three times and was going nuts looking at the plotter settings. Got irritated and deleted the graphic in Corel only to find that it was still there, deleted it again...still there....AHA!!!
     
  8. Stevo

    Stevo Active Member

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    I have had that problem like Greg has mentioned with EPS files mainly that were created in Illustrator and imported into Corel. Ive had up to 3 layers on top of each other! Also check for updates for fonts at www.letterheadfonts.com/support.


    Stevo
     
  9. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    Hapened many times with me in Illustrator ... Especially converted art from Streamline.

    Fortunately i have found Flexi to be rock solid when compounding objects (making the inner shapes into holes). I just save my .ai file and open it in Flexi and export it back to Illustrator.

    Before i open it up in Flexi though i check for all the problems that can also cause this. Multiple shapes, open shapes, shapes that already belong to other groups or compounded objects.
     
  10. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Member

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    Dec 27, 2004
    So far as I can tell it isn't:

    • an open curve, or
    • an overlying or duplicated path
    My "amB" example is fairly simple (I think)...the other things I don't know about...sounds like Adobe Illustrator problems to me...last time I used illustrator was v4.1

    If it is the font, I don't understand how it matters once converted to curves???

    I have emailed Corel's tech support about this...curious as to their answer.

    Thanks guys...If corel says anything of value I will post it here.

    --William
     
  11. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Member

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    Well, I had to resubmit the question with my serial number...some serial numbers apparently do not qualify for customer service...I'm not sure if mine does, but it will be tomorrow some time before I hear back from Corel (I gave them a link to this thread).

    --William
     
  12. idsign

    idsign Member

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    Apr 11, 2003
    Dittos,

    In past working with Corel4, 7, Streamline and SignLab 4.95, dupe vectors showed up on top of each other. The resultant "combine" was INVISIBLE - essentially a deletion of the two idential curves which were on top of each other.

    I always wonder about customer vectors unless coming from experienced graphic artists.

    Sometimes with VMP, the vector tracing does not result in a closed curve. Time to curve edit.

    Corel (?) highlights nodes that are not connected. Join them togther and result in closed curve, then combine.

    Barry
     
  13. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Member

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    I am fairly certain that none of these things are the problems.


    When not connected the two fonts do fine when converted to curves.


    In the first attached file:
    In the top line the "am" and the "B" are both converted to curves and doing fine. The "a" had to be welded to the "m," but that worked okay, too.

    When the "am" and the "B" are connected and welded together (all I did was slide the "B" over, marquee select the two objects, and click the weld icon), the holes in the "B" disappear.

    However, if you look at the second attached file:
    You will see the the hole shapes are actually still there, they are just solid.

    I assure you that I have carefully checked for open nodes and duplicate paths...there are none (I say this hoping, naively perhaps, Corel techs will actually read this thread).

    In this case it seems to happen only with the Capital B from LetterheadFonts Stevens Percepta Bold. Why? I don't know. Once the thing is converted to curves, it shouldn't happen, right?

    I can use a "B" from other fonts and get fine results. And, oddly, depending on the order of steps involved, either the hole in the "a" stays solid or the holes in the "B"...but the "B" seems to the culprit...weird, eh?

    I do hope Corel will address this...they may not because my serial number may not qualify for free tech support (depends upon whether it's academic or whatnot...mine was bought full-blown, non-academic, but I am unsure whether that qualifies either). That's understandable, if it doesn't...I didn't purchase the software thinking I had free tech support coming to me.

    I would think they would care about this from a development standpoint, though, unless I'm just doing something stupid (which might well be the case).

    --William
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Try selecting everything of concern, "convert to curves" again, apply black to it all, (or whatever color it ought to be) and then combine.

    If this doesn't work, I'm still suspecting what others have mentioned about a duplicate directly on top. Uncombine the letter, and "click" on the counter ("counter" or "bowl" is what the inner holes are called), note: do not click & drag over the counter, just click on it..........now, when it is selected, try a delete. If the counter vanishes, click "undo", and then see if you have the option to ungroup or uncombine it when it is selected.

    Any luck?

    PS: what version?
     
  15. jimdes

    jimdes Active Member

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    Okay,

    Here's my technical answer: It's a PITA! (Pain in the ***)

    Convert just about anything to a curve and you begin your problems. Add a contour or an outline and the problem gets bigger. Three outlines and a weld and the instability factor kicks in and whoosh . . . everything you've done since your last save is gone. It's at that point where I begin to curse Corel, kick and spit.

    So what do you do? Well here we go (in no particular order):

    Auto-backup: Set Auto-backup to a reasonable number. Corel's default is 20 minutes, I like mine every 9 minutes. To do this, you have to be in an open document, click “ctrl+j”, expand the "Workspace" option and click "Save". Here you can change the Auto-backup interval. You can also set a specific folder to save your Auto-backups to and I always make sure the "Make backup on save" box is checked. This will save you a lot of headaches.

    Undo Method: To fix the ghostly figures you have to do a little finagling and back tracking. Here is where the undo button becomes your new best friend.

    A. As soon as you have the problem, click the undo button! The object(s) in question should still be selected.

    B. Click “ctrl+c” (copy clip). This places a copy of the selected items in/on your volatile memory (clipboard).

    C. Click the redo button . . . back where we started except now we have an original copy in the back of the computer’s volatile memory to work with (wink).

    D. Click “ctrl+p” (paste) and paste the original into place so you can edit the resulting image with it.

    Like I said, it’s a PITA but this the easiest way I’ve found around it. Save frequently, this mixes up the active memory a little and seems to help some.

    Text conversions: Edit one letter at a time, convert to curves and then weld, the only factor that I can see repeated in text conversion problems is a narrow stroke width.

    Shape conversions: Create another shape that encapsulates the entire object, trim the smaller object from the larger object then break apart the new object (“ctrl+k”), remove the larger object and work with the components of the “new” smaller object.

    If you’re experiencing memory problems, and the program slows or shuts down on you a lot, try allocating more memory to it. Click “ctrl+j”, expand the memory option and adjust the “Available RAM.” This will take a little experimentation and will depend on how many programs you use at once and how many applications you have running in the background. I have mine set at 35% (35% of 256Mb = 89Mb, that’s plenty) and I’m okay.

    Whew, that’s a lot of stuff to digest but it is a huge problem with Corel as far as I’m concerned. Hope they get this right on the next go-round. :rolleyes:
     
  16. jimdes

    jimdes Active Member

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    one more thing . . . turn on your status bar (You can also switch between hiding and displaying the status bar by clicking Window Toolbars Status bar. (c) 2002 Corel Corporation. All rights reserved.) when you select a group of items with a selection box, the number of selected items is displayed in the middle of the status bar.
     
  17. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Member

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    THAT did it! Yahoo! (But that is NOT how I should HAVE to do it!)
     
  18. SouthPaw

    SouthPaw Member

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    Colin,

    It's CorelDraw v. 12

    I was very careful to check for duplicates, etc....Jimdes technique worked beautifully...I'd like to know why it doesn't work the way it should, though. But I can get by using the Jimdes technique.

    --William
     
  19. jimdes

    jimdes Active Member

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    Unfortunately, Corel hasn't figured out how to create a vector path without inputting huge amounts of control points. Convert any font to an object and you'll see what I mean. Adobe has fewer problems, I've been testing the Adobe Creative Suite and am reasonably happy.

    The best program to work strictly with vectors is AutoCAD R13, an oldie and it doesn't have any visual frills but it's unsinkable. I create many line drawings in AutoCAD and import them into Corel Draw 11 to create the fills.

    Now, if AutoDesk and Corel could put together a working partnership, I think both companies could make out like bandits.
     
  20. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    When I finally got fed up enough with this problem in Adobe Illustrator, I went to the Adobe Forums and posted a question about it. Within a day I got a number of replies and three solutions which individuals had written as either plugins or Javascripts.

    I would imagine that similar information is available for Corel.

    The best solution for Illustrator turned out to be a freeware plugin which adds a variety of choices to the Select Menu shown below. Now, if I suspect I have open shapes or invisible duplicate shapes, I just select from the menu and am able to quickly find them. A key unique feature of the duplicate path is that it is almost always "unfilled".

    I am also attaching the plugin for Illustrator for anyone interested in it.
     

    Attached Files:

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