Real Estate logo usage for mock-ups?

[Clem’s]

We want to start marketing to real estate agencies, is it "ok" to mock up stuff with there logos and sell it to there agents or would i need to be an approved vendor or something before using there artwork? Also any tips on getting in with a real estate agency? Thanks in advance!

 

[joeyhalderman]

We want to start marketing to real estate agencies, is it "ok" to mock up stuff with there logos and sell it to there agents or would i need to be an approved vendor or something before using there artwork? Also any tips on getting in with a real estate agency? Thanks in advance!

I actually have the same question...

 

[Rick]

So, you're going to design for free - on spec - with the the type of potential client that is almost always the kind that cheap out... to potentially sell a sign?

On the legalities.. technically, you need permission to duplicate any trademark or copyright.

To me, it's just a bad idea to give that part of the work away to a person who has not even called you... any idiot can print something, you giving the design goods away is offering, for free, the thing that makes you different from the competition...

If you lack a portfolio (and work) make a few templates with made up logos and tell the potential client, your logo and information can go here...

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

So, you're going to design for free - on spec - with the the type of potential client that is almost always the kind that cheap out... to potentially sell a sign?

On the legalities.. technically, you need permission to duplicate any trademark or copyright.

To me, it's just a bad idea to give that part of the work away to a person who has not even called you... any idiot can print something, you giving the design goods away is offering for free the thing that makes you different from the competition...

If you lack a portfolio (and work) make a few templates with made up logos and tell the potential client, your logo and information can go here...

In my experiences, real estate agents are the cheapest of the cheap, so they will love it when they get designs for free. That way when they call any other sign company, the first thing they will say "Oh, you know that sign shop Clem's sign-a-rama, that is doing our design for free, well can you make a sign like that, but beat his price?"

To the op: just expect them to call you up, make a change, and will want to see it, and then they will remember, oh, can we add the agents direct website at what ever url, and then oh, crap, I gave you the wrong url, can you change it, and on and on it will go.

I have always hated dealing with R/E agents, but grit my teeth, and deal. I am currently trying to finish a project putting vinyl on (3) electric For-Rent buggies that run around a popular vacation spot close to me all sponsored by real estate agents. The info was sent to me by a head agent, and I cut and paste all the info in, and in doing so, notice that she put the same e-mail address for (2) of the agents. Ok, I just go to the website, and get the agents info from their site, no reason to call, but sure enough, that agent wants a different e-mail... Oh, and wait, I gave you the wrong phone number for the real estate office, we gotta change that... oh, wait, can we change this...oh, wait, can we change that...

 

[HDvinyl]

The real estate industry is the same as the sign industry, a weeks worth of training and a few dollars and you can be on your way to a new career.

The agents I deal with NEVER(after the first time) ask for a discount. I say to them, "Sure, I will give you a discount if you list my next property for 1% commission"

It's funny to see their faces when they try to explain their way around me giving them a discount vs. them giving me one...

 

[ams]

I've never had issues with logos.

 

[signbrad]

We want to start marketing to real estate agencies, is it "ok" to mock up stuff with there logos and sell it to there agents or would i need to be an approved vendor or something before using there artwork? Also any tips on getting in with a real estate agency? Thanks in advance!

Trademark law is not so much designed to prevent copying artwork. It is to prevent confusion among consumers. For example, if a real estate company uses a logo or mark that is confusingly similar to that of a competitor, it is unfair, a trademark infringement. Trademark law is part of the body of law that prevents unfair competition among businesses. Its intent is not to protect original works of art from being duplicated.

Copyright law, by contrast, prohibits duplicating the original work of an author or artist. Most logos are protected by trademark law rather than copyright law, though there is sometimes overlap. Logos that are made up of just letters, even if they are stylized, or even if they include simple geometric shapes, generally do not qualify for copyright protection.

In any case, I would probably not hesitate to use a logo as part of an effort to sell work. Especially if I were starting out. You are working on speculation, of course. For free. But it is similar to making signs and displays for your showroom. It's a sales expense. It is important to keep in mind, though, that one of the really big problems in the sign industry today is that so many customers expect free design work. Many of them feel our design time is worth nothing. In most cases, it's better to get money before designing rather than after.

I do agree with some of the above comments that real estate people have a reputation for wanting to pay as little as possible. Not all of them are cheapskates, of course. But many are and do not appreciate quality work.

Regarding "approved vendors," I have never known of a real estate chain that requires their agents to use only designated sign makers. Of course, their sign work will need to conform to any branding guidelines they may have.

Brad in Kansas City

 

[ikarasu]

I think you.misunderstand what the op is asking.

He wants to start selling ReMax signs .(or another vendor) and wants to know if he can make, and post a ReMax template/example on his website . That way the agents know he sells them. Or if he's allowed to print a ReMax sign, bring it to a broker, and try to sell them the signs.

I know ReMax.does have approved sign shops... The company I work for is one of them, so I cant say on the legality of just making your own ReMax sign and trying to sell it off.

There's a 70-80 page standards manual, and they take it seriously though. Modifying it in any way unapproved is against their copyright/trademark..and for that they could sue.

I believe a broker can goto any sign shop to get a sign printed, approved or not... But again, I'm not sure on the legality of just adding ReMax signs to your portfolio .I'd say it's best to call / email the company and ask .

 

[signbrad]

He wants to start selling ReMax signs .(or another vendor) and wants to know if he can make, and post a ReMax template/example on his website . That way the agents know he sells them. Or if he's allowed to print a ReMax sign, bring it to a broker, and try to sell them the signs.

Ikarasu,

If this is what he is asking, then I did misunderstand. I'm not sure on the legality either, but asking for permission would be proper protocol. Good advice.

Brad

 

[ikarasu]

I may have been the one to misunderstand, but that's what it sounded like to me.

As for tips... Real estate agents want the fastest turn around, for the cheapest price . Proffit margins on real estate clients are thin. Some of them are great... Some of them are royal pains who want proof after proof after proof for free... Then complain the sign isn't right when they've approved the 10th proof and it's already printed.

We do A LOT of real estate. I'm talking hundreds of signs a day... It can be great money. Were on the approved list for ReMax and MacDonald (Canadian, not sure if they're available in America) and we do some.royal LePage also... Most broker agencies have their preferred printing partner, so it's not an easy game to get into .The Proffits aren't too great, so it's not like you can undercut the others by much, which makes getting your foot in the door harder .

Treat it like any other customer of yours. Do some research about the going prices of signs... Pop into a few brokers and listen to their needs, see if they're happy with their current supplier... Leave a sample of your allowed (I'd ask the head office if it's ok... Each real estate company has different rules)

 

[ams]

Think about it this way. If you post a remax template, you are only selling to remax agents. They will only buy that from you. You won't see a Real Estate III agent buying a remax sign.

 

[chester215]

Real estate signs are generally made in bulk by the big 3. Oakley, Dee & Lowen signs.
Most of the larger companies purchase their signs from one of them.
If you think you can compete with their pricing then you may get some RE sign work, but it will probably only be remax,
keller williams or other agents that purchase their own panels and not the office.
On the plus side you can probably deliver the signs faster than the competition. Their turn around during the busier time of
year, which is now, can be 2-3 weeks at the worst. Custom riders are also something you can market to get your foot in the door.
An area that you may want to explore is the commercial sign market. 4x4 signs are expensive to ship and install so they are generally made locally.
If you are visiting RE offices ASK FOR THE OFFICE MANAGER. If you only speak to the person at the front desk (the agent on duty for that day)
then you are probably wasting a trip.

 

[Clem’s]

Thanks for all the info, I have been doing market research in my area and looks like I can make a good profit. I have found 2-3 other companies that are making them now and have price sheet from them. I was amazed to see what they are charging we can beat there pricing and still make 40-50%. I’m going to make a few mock-ups and see if I can get in with one or two of the smaller company’s to start.


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[Texas_Signmaker]

I find most agents around here pleasant to deal with. Profit is acceptable. I've had a few that were hard at negotiating but I'm a mule when it comes to protecting my prices. Just don't take offence to their negotiating and stand your ground...eventually they will quit asking for discounts!

 

[Gino]

Are we talking residential divisions or the commercial divisions ??

 

[equippaint]

The quickest way into becoming a slave to your business is by running around town beating prices, its a slippery slope. Find some other in, some way to be better, through better design, quicker turnaround whatever. Just build value around you and then match their current prices. The type of customers that you want will see the better value and may use it to internally justify switching vendors. Its also really difficult to raise your prices when the sole reason a customer switched to you was because of a low price.

 

[Marlene]

Thanks for all the info, I have been doing market research in my area and looks like I can make a good profit. I have found 2-3 other companies that are making them now and have price sheet from them. I was amazed to see what they are charging we can beat there pricing and still make 40-50%. I’m going to make a few mock-ups and see if I can get in with one or two of the smaller company’s to start.


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Where did you get this price sheet? Sounds like you are out to lowball the other sign companies. If you really want to do this kind of work, I would suggest tossing out the prices from other companies and submit your own quote and see how that goes. If you can lowball them and still make a 40-50% profit, I wonder how that is possible.

 

[Gino]

Thanks for all the info, I have been doing market research in my area and looks like I can make a good profit. I have found 2-3 other companies that are making them now and have price sheet from them. I was amazed to see what they are charging we can beat there pricing and still make 40-50%. I’m going to make a few mock-ups and see if I can get in with one or two of the smaller company’s to start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you realize that most of the time, this is just a gimmick to protect themselves from people like you ??

Just about any written sales catalog is bogus. Even Feller's, Glantz, Pioneer and the rest of them..... you call them and they'll give ya a better price almost automatically. The posted costs are for reference only, unless you're too stupid to call for a better price. Haven't you ever googled and when it comes to the price, it'll say contact them in some sorts and you'll receive an updated price schedule ??

Knock yerself on out, but nobody ever got rich taking the rung lower and lower The race to the bottom is not a lonely one. You'll be surrounded by many many other bottom-feeders.

 

[ikarasu]

The company I work for mainly focussed on traffic signs. Then a new guy purchased a small warehouse, and purchased a durst while everyone else was screen printing. They were able to underbid every single job because they had less overhead, and a digital traffic sign printer. I'm not talking a few bucks here or there... I'm talking 30-40% less. They control over 80% of the sales of traffic signs in or huge area.

Now latex printers are MCs certified for some traffic signage... And our local cities are starting to do their own traffic signs... And these guys are hurting because they can't raise their prices. They're swamped with so many orders, and any mistake or mess up costs them more than they can make, because their proffit margins are so low. I give them another year or two before they're out of business... A lot of the traffic signs s have started to come back to us.

I have my own printer .and I know what we charge for real estate signs. I can comfortably cut prices in half and make a proffit. Loyalty to my company aside... If I were to sell real estate, I'd likely undercut by a couple percent maximum.. it doesn't make business sense to do more than that.

A lot of people don't factor in wear and tear / etc. You can turn a proffit at 50%, but when your printer breaks down and youre spending 10k on repairs, there goes all of your proffit. Or when you typo and have to reprint 30 signs on your dime... Etc.

I'm just starting my own business / sales, and I've already learned there's much, much more to costs than materials and ink. You may not see it now, but at the end of the year, or when something breaks down.. you'll realize why your competitor a charging double what you want to .

There's usually plenty of business to go around... So don't shoot yourself in the foot before you get started .

 

[equippaint]

Do you realize that most of the time, this is just a gimmick to protect themselves from people like you ??

Just about any written sales catalog is bogus. Even Feller's, Glantz, Pioneer and the rest of them..... you call them and they'll give ya a better price almost automatically. The posted costs are for reference only, unless you're too stupid to call for a better price. Haven't you ever googled and when it comes to the price, it'll say contact them in some sorts and you'll receive an updated price schedule ??

Knock yerself on out, but nobody ever got rich taking the rung lower and lower The race to the bottom is not a lonely one. You'll be surrounded by many many other bottom-feeders.

Noone got rich making real estate signs for brokers either.

The company I work for mainly focussed on traffic signs. Then a new guy purchased a small warehouse, and purchased a durst while everyone else was screen printing. They were able to underbid every single job because they had less overhead, and a digital traffic sign printer. I'm not talking a few bucks here or there... I'm talking 30-40% less. They control over 80% of the sales of traffic signs in or huge area.

Now latex printers are MCs certified for some traffic signage... And our local cities are starting to do their own traffic signs... And these guys are hurting because they can't raise their prices. They're swamped with so many orders, and any mistake or mess up costs them more than they can make, because their proffit margins are so low. I give them another year or two before they're out of business... A lot of the traffic signs s have started to come back to us.

I have my own printer .and I know what we charge for real estate signs. I can comfortably cut prices in half and make a proffit. Loyalty to my company aside... If I were to sell real estate, I'd likely undercut by a couple percent maximum.. it doesn't make business sense to do more than that.

There's usually plenty of business to go around... So don't shoot yourself in the foot before you get started .

You're hitting on a major problem and general laziness in people across many industries. Some guy bought a machine to do what screen printing would do. This was his opportunity to knock it out of the park. He could have stayed the same or undercut 10%, did half the work and made the same money. You don't buy a machine to lower your prices, you buy a machine to up your margins. People were getting the rate, why on earth would you go drop your pants?