Repainting large logo murals on exterior concrete walls - first time- help!

[Braggadoon]

Hi All-

We have been asked to refresh some large format logo murals that were done on several buildings of a waste and recycling center campus here in Northern California. The only information they can give us about the original job, is that they are approximately 10 years old, and were done by a young mural artist that was traveling through the area at the time. The largest is approximately 20' x 20'.

I am attaching photos of some of the works - mostly done on the exterior of concrete - walled buildings for reference.

Specific questions include:

• I am leaning towards billing per square foot - can anyone provide any insight to what may be a good rate?
• They are asking us to take the lead on surface prep:
  • Will a power washer do more harm than good? Don't want to take away any more of the paint than necessary, but there is a certain amount of mold/crud on the exterior walls and we need to address this.
  • Would another surface prep approach be better?
  • How much more per square foot should I charge them for this additional task?
• Paint? We have done several large format original hand painted signs here on the pacific coast, and have done very well with purchasing nice exterior grade paint from local retailers, but this has been for painting the sides of wooden buildings, or masonry that has had a long standing painted surface to work on.
• Any hope of sealing or protecting the surface once the repainting has been done?Would be great to somehow treat the walls to discourage new mold/ crud buildup in the future.

Many thanks to anyone who is willing and able to respond!

 

[E Coloney]

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[WildStyleSigns]

Hey, right up my alley. I wish I could help you find you did it originally, but...
I recently started a digital print shop, but have been painting signs and murals for 20+years.

Personally on concrete, brick, stone etc. I would use a "masonry block filler" as a primer.
I love that stuff, goes on thick, bonds to stone and creates such a smooth surface. Potentially have it tinted and use it as a base color.
It's great, and creates a great surface because it really saturates the pores equal to several coats of regular paint.
Then you can simply use any good quality exterior latex beyond that.
The Porch & Floor paints have performed well for me on these kind of rugged industrial spaces... any color, high adhesion, made to live outside.

Another option is Sherwin offers a paint, I believe considered an "Alyphatic Urethane" for industrial outdoor longterm use, counter guys called it "Roller Coaster paint".
I've used their epoxies to paint a billbaord to concrete wall surface very similar to these photos, the adhesion is still perfect to this day (7 years later) but it didn't handle the UV exposure to hold the vivid colors we used.

I'd suggest a DTM paint on the metal sidings.

As prep goes, a light pressure washing could def help, to see what you can break loose.
If so, I'd suggest getting great before photos, so that "if" the pressure washer actually tears the existing paint off too easily, you could pounce a pattern and replicate, unless you're an experienced sign writer and simply layout the missing portions to match.

As pricing goes, I hate square foot on these jobs, because there's so much negative space, the positive space is approx 25-30% usually of the area. (That's your actual paint coverage number).
My general rule, although cost of living is different I'm sure (I'm in Cincy) is to price $800-1000/Day to include standard materials, then add rental of lifts or specialty paint/coatings if they're above a typical gallon price.

Hope something in this rant was relevant!

 

[Billct2]

Those are in good shape for their age. Too bad you don't know what paint was used, it was good. I wouldn't "power" wash, just soak with a good soap/mildew/crud cleaner, scrub with a brush and then rinse. Hopefully the paint will mostly remain intact. Then paint with a good quality paint. I would test a few areas to see how it cleans up before committing to a price. I don't do square foot for a job like this, I calculate time and materials plus a healthy margin for error on a job like this

 

[Gino]

I think I'd offer up overlays. Eliminates washing, prepping and hand-painting on the side of some buildings for a few days. Paints are much worse today, than even 10 years ago..... and besides, maybe the old guy still had lead in his paint. 2010, quite possible.

Calculate the sizes needed to cover the old stuff and go from there. Offer a 3 tier pricing.

1. Overlay with 3mm panels
2. Overlay with 3mm panels plus framework
3. Hand-painted as you requested

And no, nothing like this is done by the square foot. Look at it, figure out materials, time and your going up & down ladders and lifts to place pounce patterns, then to go back and paint them all. Oh yeah..... and all your prep work.

 

[MikePatterson]

Hire a painter come in and do them. Add a % for your troubles plus lift rental and materials. Even if you have to fly someone in and put them in a hotel it will be worth it.

 

[Braggadoon]

Thank you so much for your input!

Thank you Mr. Wild Style -
As we are only repainting the graphics, and have no intention on full removal, I'm not certain we could benefit from the masonry block filler. Yes? I'm assuming that this would mean removing or covering up the existing graphic, applying the block filler, and then starting from scratch - this approach is definitely not preferred! I will look into the Sherwin paint - thank you. They have already built into their budget the need to do touch up every 10 years or so, so its good to be working for a client who understands the materials' limitations!
Amen to the "before" photos - just in case something goes awry! And if we were to bill per sq. ft. it would be entire size, not actual paint coverage area that I would bill for! However, now that I've gotten your feedback, along with a few others, it doesn't seem as though that is the traditional way to bill for this - I was basing this on how some members of my team bill for artwork murals - I'm lucky to have some great artists on staff!

Bill! I agree with you! I even pointed out that they were still looking quite good - but the owner of the company is wanting to stay ahead of things and is missing the vibrancy of the original application. If a power washer isn't used, you are recommending a traditional scrub method - but on several 20' x 20' murals? Isn't that a bit much to tackle, and also, wouldn't that be ultimately more abrasive than the power washing? I'm hoping to keep as much of the original paint in tact as possible. I'm definitely going to rethink that sq. foot pricing option.

Gino! Thank you - sadly, they will not consider overlays, nor will they consider our doing a background color - they really like the look of the logos directly on the raw concrete. Oy! Point taken about the square foot pricing - everyone seems to be in agreement on that.

Mike - I don't know about how painters work where you are, but here, I don't have a solid enough local team to trust to bring in on a job like this, and we do have quite a bit of experience doing large format hand painted signage. We've always started fresh - never a re-do - this has far more complications than if we had been the original installers for sure!

 

[Gino]

The thing to remember is that... anything near a recycling center is covered in filth. When you start washing those walls and whatnot, you'll hafta continue to a point of no return. In other words the entire wall top to bottom and end to end. Otherwise, it will look as though you painted a board on there anyway. Did you really look at how putrid those walls are ?? They will m ost likely hafta be sandblasted, primed and then re-coated, before you even prep them to take your paint. Also, I would venture to say, you'll need to alert them to the fact that most paints will not weather 10 years anymore. None, even the industrial will not stand up to exterior weather and conditions. I'd still urge them to at least look at the various possibilities.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I agree with Gino. Sandblast and clean the entire wall(s), then prime with high-build acrylic block primer, then pattern and paint. Unless you sandblast and paint the entire building, it will look panelized. This is one of those jobs where it will take 10x more work than the original slappy paint job. I think I would walk away from it if I couldn't put up ACM overlays.

 

[MikePro]

+1 Gino's advice. feels like a rabbit-hole of cleaning to make it look "right"
dibond panels with graphics, big enough to cover existing stuff, and bolt it on. upsell it as a setup for future revisions that would only require new vinyl overlays, but at a fraction of the cost to restore & regraphic.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Those signs look ok as they are. Tell em to spend there money on something else you can offer them.

 

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

"Murals" ?
To me they're just painted block letters on a wall. A mural I'd suggest has a pictorial element, not simple direction or identification text.

I'd suggest you pass on the job in this instance, to someone with experience.
It sounds like there is far too much you need to know about paints, adhesion and preparation, for this particular job, which you don't know, and it's not worth risking you mucking it up and having all the paint fall off in the next rain storm...

 

[ChicagoGraphics]

Those don't even look like they are hand painted, you sure they are not vinyl? I wouldn't call these a mural It's just basic lettering on a wall