Need Help Repair person

[Mike R.]

Good morning all,

Been a while since I have been on the forum. I am a teacher/instructor at a Tech School. I have a Mutoh 1204 Valuejet Printer. I have been having some major issues with it. I had spoken to the company where the machine was purchased (in TX). We talked about the possible issues of why the printer was not work correctly. With that being said, I have replace the printhead, the maintenance station, o-rings and dampers. I still can not get a good print. I am located in Athens Alabama. They are willing to send a repair person, but I have to pay airfare, car rental, lodging, food, plus 130.00 per hour. Looking for something less expensive. Is there anyone that can point me in the direction of a repair person in or near my area, to come look at my printer?

thanks,

Mike R.

 

[Gino]

Good luck, cause it hardly seems worth their price for such a machine. You could almost buy a new one til it's all over. Perhaps that's their intentions.

 

[papabud]

those mutohs are fairly easy to work on. and if you cant find someone local to poip in and help you fix it, i would start a thread here and a few of us might be able to help talk you through repairing it yourself..
these machines are not highly expensive to buy used, but you will always be buying someone elses problems

 

[Mike R.]

those mutohs are fairly easy to work on. and if you cant find someone local to poip in and help you fix it, i would start a thread here and a few of us might be able to help talk you through repairing it yourself..
these machines are not highly expensive to buy used, but you will always be buying someone elses problems

This is true. I cannot get the nozzles to fire correctly. When I print if leaves lines and the color is not correct. As if, not getting enough ink. When I do a nozzle check (after setting over night) seems the first one does almost perfect and as I do more it seems to get worse.

Everything is level. All parts seems to be in the correct position. As I said, I have replaced the print head with and new one. I have replace the maintenance station with a new one. I tried tighting the o-ring to the dampers, didn't work, so I ordered new o-rings and dampers. That didn't work.

 

[papabud]

i would chase your ink lines and look for any holes.

 

[Gino]

Are you running OEM inks ??

Also, this is why so many people who have been around the block a coupla times will tell you one of the most important things when purchasing this level of equipment is to make sure where you buy it..... they can easily service it.

 

[chrisphilipps]

If the printer has an almost perfect nozzle check after sitting and then looses nozzles after printing, you are getting air in the system. When you said that you replaced the head, where did you buy it from what was it a Mutoh supplied print head or was it from a third party. If it was a third party head do you know if you or the supplier of the head change the manifold? I ask this because the lower cost third party heads start out as a water based head and the manifold gets changed over to a solvent resistant one. If this was done incorrectly you will get air in the system at the head level. Whoever put the dampers on the print head could have also cracked the nipple on the manifold if they were not inserted or removed straight up and down. Do you see any air in the lines? When you run a cleaning does waste ink come out of the maintenance station? Please provide pictures of the nozzle check and the print with the banding.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Post some pictures of the nozzle check and some examples of what the print looks like. With those we can diagnose fairly easily. Do you see air bubbles in the ink lines above the dampers?

 

[Michael-Nola]

This problem is almost always because the clog is AFTER your head. So the nozzle check looks good, but the lack of consistent vacuum to the head means your ink will appear to starve out or disappear on multiple channels.

Check my response here on this thread:
GS6000 Inconsistent Color

The good news is that the mutohs and more than several epsons share virtually all the same build specs, so finding a resource to repair shouldn't be difficult.

Where are you located? I'm between DC and NOLA constantly, I'd be happy to help!

 

[Mike R.]

This problem is almost always because the clog is AFTER your head. So the nozzle check looks good, but the lack of consistent vacuum to the head means your ink will appear to starve out or disappear on multiple channels.

Check my response here on this thread:
GS6000 Inconsistent Color

The good news is that the mutohs and more than several epsons share virtually all the same build specs, so finding a resource to repair shouldn't be difficult.

Where are you located? I'm between DC and NOLA constantly, I'd be happy to help!

Thanks for your info. I am located in Athens, Alabama which is north Ala. 35 miles west of Huntsville. I went to the thread and read the info. I feel like I have did all that you talked about. I am new at this so I may be missing something. Just got this machine about 2 years ago. 1st year was great. Most of the problem is probably on me. I was not aware of the proper cleaning and did not do a great job cleaning the wiper. (lesson learned) After having the issues I was told that I did NOT clean it properly. Anyway, I have been fighting this battle ever since. I was told the head was clogged and was instructed what to do. So, I did several head soaks and strong cleaning, didn't work. Then I was told I would probably need a new head. So, I bought one, didn't fix my problem. Then was told could be maintenance station. So, got one, didn't fix it. Now on to new dampers and o-rings. Still didn't fix the problem.

I left the printer (on) overnight. Came in this morning and did 2 nozzle checks seemed almost perfect (both of them). Printed 2 American flags 8x18. They weren't the correct color (all most looks like a faded flag) and if you look close you can see some small lines in the print.. I did another nozzle check. Had some miss-fires.on each color

So I went in and changed the color value. Now the color looks better (brighter red and blue), but major lines/streaks.Looks like when the print began it just miss fired on the beginning lines. Did another nozzle check. Getting several miss-fires Looks terrible. Looks like all colors are miss firing most of the middle sprays.

I was hoping to solve the problem with out a lot of expense. As a school, we are always short of money. I am at the point of seeking professional help. If I wasn't already half bald, I would be pulling my hair out....................

I have added a couple pics of the flags. The darker one was the first print. Looks almost perfect. The brighter one is the second print. Notice the lines at the bottom of the flag and how they stay constant throughout the print.

Thanks again for you time and concern.

Mike R.

 

[papabud]

what your seeing is called banding.
you said you left the machine on. you should always leave the machine on. it does auto cleaning while idle to keep the head from getting clogged.
now your banding is either from a head issue or an encoder issue.
when you do a head test it should look like a nice grid, any deviation from this solid pattern is a head issue. missing grid lines or out of place grid lines is a problem
now your encoder is just a little disk in the side of the machine. this needs to be super clean so the sensor reads it correctly.
if you been turning your machine off. you may of clogged a few jets.
run several heavy cleanings then build 4 files 1 for each color with it at 100% for that color and 0% for the others. this will tell you which color is acting up the most.
you can build a file with all 4 colors at 100% if you just want to pump ink through the machine.
you can also set the machine to uni directional printing or bi directional to see if ether one of those will print better

 

[Michael-Nola]

Hmm yea I really think this is the problem I listed in the GS6000 thread, problem 4. Check 4-1 and 4-3, but those are easy. If the capping stations and waste flow are fine it's usually a problem in your vacuum pumps. The only way to know is to disassemble that area. Take off the capping station. There should be hoses running to some pumps, take all that out. The capping station->pumps->waste are the most common area to get get clogged.

A lot of people chase mystery air bubbles they think are before the heads, but if you haven't taken anything apart it's just not common. I've never seen it, but I've heard that assessment on nearly every issue like this.

I've also thrown away LOTS of ink doing swatch tests and trying to "run ink through it" to unclog lines. I've never seen that work either. These things have to move some ink to stay unclogged, and once they start, no amount of fluid will stop it, cleaning solution or ink or otherwise. You just have to replace the problem hoses. What those color tests WILL show you is if it's a physical clog on one of the colors or if it's a system-wide issue, like I think it is. All colors do not dry at the same rate and thus often do not clog all at the same time.

However, if you've replaced the head, maintenance station, and dampers and such, you've done everything you can do to show there is no clog at the head and before. The problem isn't there then. The most likely culprit is going to be the vacuum pumps and hoses under the head.

Ah Atlanta area - yea that's smack dab in the middle lol, I'd have to make a serious trip to stop there. Work with the information I've given you so far - you need to take apart the capping station to the waste container. You should find clogs there. Clean out the plastic parts and replace the hoses. Also make sure your capper heads allow a free flow of solvent through them.

 

[Michael-Nola]

Also when you replace hoses, keep in mind that solvent eats pvcs and plastics lol.
One of the recommended tubings for medium to light solvent inks is Tygon PVC. Its mildly chemical resistant. Do not use this tubing for high solvent inks. Those require LLDPE.
Anyway, this is probably whats connecting your cappers to pumps, but you'll need to check your inner and outer diameters:
TYGON Tubing,1/16 I.D.,50 ft.,Clear,Flexible - 2LPR5|AAB00002 - Grainger

Any size in that Tygon PVC will work for your printer.

 

[Mike R.]

what your seeing is called banding.
you said you left the machine on. you should always leave the machine on. it does auto cleaning while idle to keep the head from getting clogged.
now your banding is either from a head issue or an encoder issue.
when you do a head test it should look like a nice grid, any deviation from this solid pattern is a head issue. missing grid lines or out of place grid lines is a problem
now your encoder is just a little disk in the side of the machine. this needs to be super clean so the sensor reads it correctly.
if you been turning your machine off. you may of clogged a few jets.
run several heavy cleanings then build 4 files 1 for each color with it at 100% for that color and 0% for the others. this will tell you which color is acting up the most.
you can build a file with all 4 colors at 100% if you just want to pump ink through the machine.
you can also set the machine to uni directional printing or bi directional to see if ether one of those will print better

Yes sir, I do leave it on overnight unless I am doing a head soak. Over the summer when school is out I do a long store (full flush) on the machine. During the week breaks like; fall break, Christmas break, or spring break. I leave it running and I still come by the school and a print at least every 2 or 3 days.

I have not checked the encoder. I will google it and see if I can figure out how to check and clean it.

thanks,

Mike R

 

[Michael-Nola]

Double also, banding is a generic term that can often lead to misunderstandings on what is causing it. Lines parallel the travel of the head are NOT caused by any bi-directional alignments. Without even opening the machine, simply go through the menu and print a bi-directional alignment test. It if looks fine, it is fine. Lines parallel to the print head are either ink/head quality issues, or in some cases a Step misalignment. If it was a Step issue, you would have them on every print, and never be able to get them to go away. Clearly based on your testing, this is not a step issue. It is an ink laydown issue.

Banding perpendicular to head travel, like text facing the operator that is blurry, is caused by bi-directional alignment.

 

[Mike R.]

Hmm yea I really think this is the problem I listed in the GS6000 thread, problem 4. Check 4-1 and 4-3, but those are easy. If the capping stations and waste flow are fine it's usually a problem in your vacuum pumps. The only way to know is to disassemble that area. Take off the capping station. There should be hoses running to some pumps, take all that out. The capping station->pumps->waste are the most common area to get get clogged.

A lot of people chase mystery air bubbles they think are before the heads, but if you haven't taken anything apart it's just not common. I've never seen it, but I've heard that assessment on nearly every issue like this.

I've also thrown away LOTS of ink doing swatch tests and trying to "run ink through it" to unclog lines. I've never seen that work either. These things have to move some ink to stay unclogged, and once they start, no amount of fluid will stop it, cleaning solution or ink or otherwise. You just have to replace the problem hoses. What those color tests WILL show you is if it's a physical clog on one of the colors or if it's a system-wide issue, like I think it is. All colors do not dry at the same rate and thus often do not clog all at the same time.

However, if you've replaced the head, maintenance station, and dampers and such, you've done everything you can do to show there is no clog at the head and before. The problem isn't there then. The most likely culprit is going to be the vacuum pumps and hoses under the head.

Ah Atlanta area - yea that's smack dab in the middle lol, I'd have to make a serious trip to stop there. Work with the information I've given you so far - you need to take apart the capping station to the waste container. You should find clogs there. Clean out the plastic parts and replace the hoses. Also make sure your capper heads allow a free flow of solvent through them.

As I mentioned, I am new at this. Just asking, when I replaced the maintenance station, I purchased the complete assembly.does that include the vacuum pump? I thought all that was one assemble.

 

[Michael-Nola]

You'll have to forgive me, I am working from memory and some mechanical assumptions. I'd need to be in front of it to tell you exactly, and I'm short on time to look up the diagrams.

In general, no the maintenance station is just the cappers, the springs and pieces that the cappers sit on, etc. Pumps and lines are all after the maint. station.
If you have 2 heads, there should be 2 small electric motors or "pumps". They look just like a motor from inside of a toy. If you have one head, then one pump.

You definitely shouldn't have to replace the motors/pumps, but the lines going to it or the little ink-flow mechanisms attached. FYI, virtually all printers' "pumps" that are attached to the motors (the little plastic guys that open and close allowing ink through) can easily be taken off the motor, taken apart, cleaned, and reassembled. There's little reason to replace in most cases.