Right and wrong

[Joe Diaz]

weeks for orders

Whether the other sign shop is bad or not, taking a week or two to complete projects may not be a negative. It could mean the other sign shop is busy, which may really only be bad for the customer that hasn't planned ahead and is ordering their signage at the last minute. IF you are picking up jobs the other shop would have normally had because you can get the job done the day after it was ordered, you may find yourself in a position where those are the types of clients you attract. And that's not necessarily a bad thing depending on what type of shop you hope to be, but I would image one would want to avoid becoming the place to go for quick cheap work. So If you're going to be quick, try not to be cheap too. That's just my personal opinion.

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

Joe, I'd like to see your complete list of customer #'s...

The problem that I see, you lack confidence in your ability as a sign guy and you may be "cutting your teeth" on a new customer.

What you really need to do is examine the way that you conduct business. This is what I learned from working at an ISO 9000 company, and I do what I learned there, at least as far as dealing with customers.

1. Meet with the customer and find out what they are wanting. Take a digital camera, and a color chart with you, as well as anything you would need for them to make a decision as far as options they want. Make sure to take a tape measure so you know exactly what your covering. Tell the customer that you will e-mail them a price on company quote.

2. When you get back from the customers location, sit down and figure out what your going to use, then make a quote sheet, and get it e-mailed to them. That way when they get it, they know you keep your word. It also gives them an idea of what they are getting / paying. (I do it the same day, or worst case, next day. Never more than that.) Plus you can put the terms of the job. (ie 1/2 down, 1/2 paid when the job is complete.)

3. Once they approve the cost, and cut you a check, then sit down create the artwork. Spell out the colors used (taht they picked). Put the artwork on the digital photo that you took. Once you have a signture on the sheet in your hands, that they approve the artwork, then you cut it, and install it. If you cut an extra set (for your own use, say on location in case something goes sideways when installing, never give it to the customer. That means in their eyes, the material is cheap enough to give it away.)

4. Install the materail exactly as in the drawings. If it is within 1/8" from drawing, your fine.

5. Pick up your payment check.

If there is a problem, ie, they don't like it, "I'm sorry, but it is exactly what you signed off on, with the colors you picked. Tell me what is wrong with it, and I'll try to fix it, for $xxx."

If you give the customer a chance to complain about something, some will take the opportunity. But if you remove the opportunity through customer approvals and signoffs, you won't have near as many. Plus it makes you more organized, and in the customers eyes, more professional.

I'm not on my computer in the shop, but there was a video posted up that you would do well to sit down and watch...Its called "f$%! you, pay me!"

 

[MikeD]

I try not to do business with family, friends, neighbors or anyone else I wouldn't be comfortable confronting in court.
Good Luck!

 

[DizzyMarkus]

Thanks again for all the responses -- boy am I soaking all this up :0)


Visual800 -- I agree now thats its over. I thought at that time it was the best move on my part so I didnt get the "I wasnt happy and he charged me this much." It wont happen again.

Joe -- thanks again for your insight -- its great to look at it from different angles and this one I hadnt yet. The "other shop" has been the only one in town for quite sometime , they are older folks and are cutter only. However they do nice work as I intend to do. This paticular job was terrible easy, even a caveman could do it :0) I value your opinions.



Kottwitz-Graphics -- thank you for taking the time to respond so completely.

1/ 2 -- I meet with the customer at the place of business, color charts inhand to match the trim and tape measure on pocket to measure my working space. Sat with them for awhile tossing ideas and sketches around until we got a graphic they liked and it was only up to font choice of which I gave them 6 to choose. They chose one and I had them sign their name and number through the image they wanted to use. It even had the exact dimensions listed of the images. They live across the street so I then dropped of a "quote" top them in which they signed also.

3. This is where I screwed up majorly lol Being it was my direct next door neighbor, who called me even. From now on no matter who DEPOSIT DEPOSIT DEPOSIT for me.

4. Theres a seat inside the window he wanted patrons to be able to see out of while eating. He sat and I put a piece of painters tape on the inside of the window to judge the height he agreed upon and measureing in front of him (also stated on quote). No questions what so ever.

If there is a problem, ie, they don't like it, "I'm sorry, but it is exactly what you signed off on, with the colors you picked.

This is the most valueable part I think I have learned from this
situtation. I dont think I will be trying to fix it as Visual800 said -- the moneys gone now and unrecoverable. It wont break me to let this one go. I have paid for most of lifes lessons thus far

 

[DizzyMarkus]

Mike -- I knew better :0)

I was a tradesmen for 20 years till a few years ago and understand this to well. Shame on me

Markus

 

[Gino]

As pointed out so many ways, you made a lot of No/No's in your presentation to your collection.

You've made mention and repeated yourself as to THEY had no idea it was going to be so small.

When you give a costumer a scaled drawing.... do you show it as superimposed on the photograph of their building with window so they can get a set of references ??

Something I see so many people do is..... to show someone what it will look like on a computer screen or a 8.5" x 11" piece of paper and then..... interpretations take place..... sizes are always the culprit.

Most people can't imagine size, whether at a distance or up close. You can't discuss this on a level of anything without specific visuals.

• First, you go look at the place, take pictures and send the guy a quote.
• Collect 50% and start on drawing.
  [*]They sign off.
  [*]You decorate.
  [*]Collect other 1/2 before leaving.... no matter how late it is.
  

Now, if anything goes wrong, you've been paid and you're in a better bargaining position. Otherwise, you're just another anybody waiting to get screwed with your clothes on.

Friends, neighbors, relatives or otherwise.... it's business and unless you're getting something other than money, don't do it for nothing. Might as well be going fishing or something you like... if you're gonna do it free.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Two thoughts....first thing I would have done was gotten a whole lot more information about why they didn't like it. Were the colors bad? Were the fonts bad? Was it all too big/too small? Using 42.75" of the available 43" width is NEVER a good idea.

Secondly.....DO WORK, GET PAID. Period. If you want to go back and redo it for free after you get paid for the first one that's your decision.

Right now you have:
--money spent on materials
--time spent installing and removing materials
--time spent taking the order and setting up the order
--a business owner who thinks you're incompetent
--a neighbor who thinks you're a dick

The shop that he hires to redo it will have:
--the benefit of him telling them what didn't work and why
--the ability to charge more than you did since he's already going to assume that whatever you gave him was all he could get for what you charged
--the knowledge that they'd better get paid upfront
--and in the end they'll have a happy customer AND THE MONEY.

You've got all the negatives....somebody else is getting to profit from your problems.

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

The "other shop" has been the only one in town for quite sometime , they are older folks and are cutter only. However they do nice work as I intend to do. This paticular job was terrible easy, even a caveman could do it :0) I value your opinions.

I know where your coming from.

In my particular situation, I relocated to Maryland from Mississippi to work at a national sign supplier. While there, I reached out to other sign guys in the area, and met "Bob" that had the only shop in the town that I live in (neighboring town to where the national supplier where I worked).

After my work closed, I went to work at another shop, and then left there, and went to work for the guy in my town. I stayed there for several years, and things got slack, and not much work, so I started working subcontract for him and a couple of other sign companies in the area.

I eventually got to the point where I wanted to do my own thing, so I started investing in equipment, and went out and got my own customers. What I found out really quick is everyone knows "Bob" (in business for 25 years), and everyone knows that "Bob" is very slow. Sometimes weeks getting quotes back, and sometimes not even showing up to look at what he has to be quoted.

I had a customer walk in my shop, and said that they needed their truck lettered, they had been after "Bob" to get out there to measure and give them a price, but after 3 months they were tired of calling him, so would I be willing to do it (they knew me from working for him). They wanted to know when I could go measure and give them a price. My response of "no time like the present" earned me a customer for life. They are only 2 or 3 miles outside of town.

The thing to remember, customers will jump ship for price, but they will return for customer service. Do what you say, and say what you will do will earn you tons of points, and your customers will appreciate it.

 

[DizzyMarkus]

Do what you say, and say what you will do will earn you tons of points, and your customers will appreciate it.

Words to live by in most situtations, thank you for reminding me of that :0)

Thank you also Gino -- I am going to have to sit down and put an outline together until it's imprinted in my pea brain ;p; This single thread made my subscription worth while

thank you guys and girls for all the info and for offering it,
Markus