S140T Dragging blade across laminated prints

[White Haus]

We've got an older Summa S140T that we picked up a couple months ago.

It's been an absolute workhorse cutting multiple rolls of printed (unlaminated) vinyl every day lately.

Now we've got a few rolls of laminated prints to shape cut but I've noticed the blade drags across and scratches laminated vinyl. This happens whenever the media or cut carriage is moving, and doesn't hit 100% of the areas, I guess just any area that is slightly buckling/raised and not being held down by the vaccum.
Using 3mil vinyl + 3mil laminate.

Cleaned out the vacuum holes, checked blade and holder, etc. Is there a way to increase vacuum power?

Am I missing something? I feel like it didn't do this before and that I'm forgetting/missing something.

Any tips/thoughts would be appreciated. Will have to get this sorted out before committing to this workflow for the next job.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Bly]

Tape a swab next to the knife so the foam bit keeps the vinyl down.

 

[White Haus]

Had this happen before. Depending on the customer, I kindly let it go on occassion. In my experience, it was just a very light scuff, bound to be joined by his numerous brethren over time. The best solution I found was to babysit the plotter, running somewhat slowly, and holding the vinyl down lightly around the knife as it crossed between cuts. This was all on a graphtec...
One thing to note, the graphtec has two different settings on the software side, restrict media movement and speed priority. Depending on your actual layout, one may cross the material more often than the other, causing more cuts.
Just a thought, cover the excess vacuum holes on either side of the vinyl width and see if that improves performance a bit?

Thanks, will try covering excess vacuum holes, although we are cutting 54" media on a 54" plotter.

We've got 3 rolls to cut and really hope we don't have to babysit it the whole time as it will tie someone up for a day.

If anyone else has any ideas I'm all ears.

 

[White Haus]

Tape a swab next to the knife so the foam bit keeps the vinyl down.

You reckon this would work? Have you done it in the past?
I'm willing to try anything because if we can't get this sorted out I'll have to print and cut on our Roland and that adds a couple days of production compared to printing on Mimaki and cutting on the Summa.

 

[Bly]

You reckon this would work? Have you done it in the past?
I'm willing to try anything because if we can't get this sorted out I'll have to print and cut on our Roland and that adds a couple days of production compared to printing on Mimaki and cutting on the Summa.

Seems crazy to have to do this to the most expensive cutter in existence but it works.
That's a bit of silicon liner stuck to the bottom so it doesn't drag on the vinyl.

 

[iPrintStuff]

I’ve always found slowing the speed down a bit helps but have also found this is a problem. I take it buying extra pinch rollers isn’t an option?

 

[White Haus]

Seems crazy to have to do this to the most expensive cutter in existence but it works.
That's a bit of silicon liner stuck to the bottom so it doesn't drag on the vinyl.

View attachment 147300

Thanks Bly! I'm going to try this on Monday. Does indeed seem crazy that this would be required. Will report back.

 

[White Haus]

I’ve always found slowing the speed down a bit helps but have also found this is a problem. I take it buying extra pinch rollers isn’t an option?

I'm going to look into adding more pinch rollers, I guess this could help close the gaps between them where the media is lifting a little.

I wouldn't be able to get any in time to get this project done but might help for future jobs.

 

[White Haus]

There's another post currently going about a graphtec, but same issue to a degree. Don't know how to quote cross threads but dypinc 's solution:
My solution for that problem. Had plans for modifying the cover but never got it done. I am surprised graphtec hasn't implemented something like this.

Holds the media down enough so it can not touch the blade when it is in the up position.

Crazy. Thank you.

Hard to believe the 2 best brands of plotters would require gimmicks like this. Guess I shouldn't complain about our trusty old Roland Soljet because it never ran into issues like this. I guess having a ton of pinch rollers makes a difference after all.

 

[jerry369]

Did you try to mount the black nosepiece? It is generally used with the 60 degree blade but it can also be mounted to keep the tip more raised while moving the tangential head.

 

[White Haus]

Did you try to mount the black nosepiece? It is generally used with the 60 degree blade but it can also be mounted to keep the tip more raised while moving the tangential head.

I don't believe we have anything like that. Got the plotter used so maybe it was forgotten? I'll look into it though, thanks!

 

[jerry369]

In the following images you can see a black nosepiece for thick materials (code 395-347) and the standard nosepiece (code 395-348)

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

Good morning,

Just wanted to point out that you can add additional pinch rollers to your Summa cutter and if the media is "flexing" and creating a high spot that the blade is scratching during cutting, the best solution would be to add an additional pinch roller to keep the media down flatter to the surface of the cutter. You could also change the nose piece as Jerry suggested, but you would also need to change the blade to the thick materials blade, and for materials less than 10 mil thick you wouldn't be using the correct blade.

Here is a link to our web store where you can purchase the "media select kit", which includes the pinch roller assembly, roller, and clip that you would need to install another roller - https://www.airmark.com/products/media-select-kit. I also have installation instructions that I can send you if you do end up buying the kit.

Feel free to PM me or email me at philj@airmark.com if you want to pick my brain on this any further.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[jerry369]

You could also change the nose piece as Jerry suggested, but you would also need to change the blade to the thick materials blade, and for materials less than 10 mil thick you wouldn't be using the correct blade

Hi Phil
You can also use the black nosepiece with the standard 36 degree blade, not only with the 60 degree sandblast blade. I suggest it when you need to cut a material that is not thick but you want to keep the blade higher while moving.

 

[eahicks]

I have this issue cutting Motomark and any vinyl laminated with polycarb lam....it's so stiff it doesn't "roll" over the platen and lay flat. Will try the swab trick next time.

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

Hi Phil
You can also use the black nosepiece with the standard 36 degree blade, not only with the 60 degree sandblast blade. I suggest it when you need to cut a material that is not thick but you want to keep the blade higher while moving.

While it's true you could use the standard blades in there, if the material is flexing enough to cause scratching with the standard nose piece then switching to the thick materials nose piece probably won't help much. You could try the swab trick also, however the best long term solution for fixing the flex/scratching issue would be to add additional rollers.

To the OP, if you end up trying the thick materials nose piece, could you share your results so we can see if that fixes the scratching?

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[Tessellate]

It’s a shame but we have the same cutter. Few rolls a week get cut and it never gives us any issues other then the vinyl scratching you speak of and sometimes some misalignment when cutting 8mil floor lamination on 40c for some reason...

we have adapted the “swab” trick As the photos have shown. I tape two q-tips onto the head as it’s cheap insurance. They usually last around 2-3 weeks before the cotton begins we wear down to low. At that point we simply replace them with two new ones. Since doing this around a year ago we haven’t had a single scratched piece of laminate since. Looks funky but I suppose function over form?

 

[White Haus]

It’s a shame but we have the same cutter. Few rolls a week get cut and it never gives us any issues other then the vinyl scratching you speak of and sometimes some misalignment when cutting 8mil floor lamination on 40c for some reason...

we have adapted the “swab” trick As the photos have shown. I tape two q-tips onto the head as it’s cheap insurance. They usually last around 2-3 weeks before the cotton begins we wear down to low. At that point we simply replace them with two new ones. Since doing this around a year ago we haven’t had a single scratched piece of laminate since. Looks funky but I suppose function over form?

Good to know, thanks! I've tested it out and it does indeed seem to work. I guess there's a fine line in terms of how much pressure the swab is putting on the vinyl - too little and it doesn't keep it down, too much and it's buckling when the cut carriage changes directions and I would imagine it would eventually stress the motor. 2 laminated rolls to cut today so I'll keep my fingers crossed!

 

[White Haus]

Good morning,

Just wanted to point out that you can add additional pinch rollers to your Summa cutter and if the media is "flexing" and creating a high spot that the blade is scratching during cutting, the best solution would be to add an additional pinch roller to keep the media down flatter to the surface of the cutter. You could also change the nose piece as Jerry suggested, but you would also need to change the blade to the thick materials blade, and for materials less than 10 mil thick you wouldn't be using the correct blade.

Here is a link to our web store where you can purchase the "media select kit", which includes the pinch roller assembly, roller, and clip that you would need to install another roller - https://www.airmark.com/products/media-select-kit. I also have installation instructions that I can send you if you do end up buying the kit.

Feel free to PM me or email me at philj@airmark.com if you want to pick my brain on this any further.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

While it's true you could use the standard blades in there, if the material is flexing enough to cause scratching with the standard nose piece then switching to the thick materials nose piece probably won't help much. You could try the swab trick also, however the best long term solution for fixing the flex/scratching issue would be to add additional rollers.

To the OP, if you end up trying the thick materials nose piece, could you share your results so we can see if that fixes the scratching?

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com

Hey Phil, appreciate your responses. I'll look into adding more pinch rollers and the nose piece. We just ordered a F1612 so I'll see if the tech can add them on there for us when he's here. Do you think if we added 2 pinch rollers that would be sufficient?

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

No problem, I am happy to help! Adding two rollers should definitely help keep the media down flatter to the surface of the cutter. The additional rollers can be installed by the end user and aren't too hard to install, so you could maybe even start by adding one and see if that fixes the issue before adding a second roller.

Feel free to reach out if there is anything that I can do to help and best of luck with the new F1612!

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext 112
philj@airmark.com