S60600 Horizontal Banding "lawn mower banding"

[royalwrapz]

I suspect this may be a combination of the media, relative humidity and head height causing static electricity to take out nozzles.

Try these three steps to isolate the problem. Ensure your heads have all nozzles firing before each step.

1. Ensure your head is not too high. The head height should be as close you can run without causing head strikes, default setting is usually good. Run a test of the problematic print and check.
2. Increase the relative humidity to 60%. I would expect to have static issues in such a dry environment. Run a test of the problematic print and check.
3. Change the media to something else. Some media are just static mills and can cause problems if step 1 and 2 are not right. Run a test of the problematic print and check.

From painful experience, it's easy for techs to spend days burning ink and media trying to fix a printer when it's really a setup problem. They are trained look for mechanical/electrical problems and ignore everything outside of the printer cabinet.

Head height is 1.6 lowest setting. I have also tried 2.0 and 2.5 just because.
I will check on the humidity.
Have tried many materials all same results

 

[royalwrapz]

Can you re-try the test using a colour that isn't blue/cyan heavy?

It has the banding in all colors. Even 100% k reds, oranges,

 

[royalwrapz]

royal REALLY might want to give one of these a try:

https://www.amazon.com/Milty-5036694022153-Zerostat-Anti-Static-Blue/dp/B0033SHDSS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxYWxlOrX-QIVCsDICh0DawovEAAYASAAEgLktfD_BwE&hvadid=616863034947&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9004005&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12319099424228093089&hvtargid=kwd-315448633329&hydadcr=24660_13611807&keywords=anti-static+gun&qid=1661081335&s=electronics&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSldWWE1ZTjMyVVE5JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjc3NTU0M0dKMTAwQTBPNEZVVyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzAzMDM0MTZGU0NKWVlHMEQwQSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

this is not what i consider a "static problems" time of year, so it has to be a series of thing, creating the perfect storm.

my impression is that machine is just going to be susceptable to static problems

you are certainly on the right track looking for 60% humidity, but i am afraid we end upwith a problem that "comes & goes"

raise humidity, try the static gun and SOMEONE should look the machine over & see if a static suppression brush was left out during reassembly after some sort of service

amazon will let you return ANYTHING, for almost any reason.

Tech is coming tomorrow i will ask him about this.

 

[royalwrapz]

Opposite of the S40600, the S60600 has a dryer unit over the output's heat platen. It's true that a too dry environment could either increase the "speed" of the drying and/or increase static with this dryer pushing dry and hot air over the output; both possibly creating the banding. I'd stick a small hygrometer (just a few bucks) at the center of the clear plexiglass of the output door (on the outside...) to see what kind of humidity you have at the output when printing; if it's anything below 50% you may have a lack of humidity problem. Nothing a good room humidifier can't resolve.. Like I said earlier, I doubt this is software (RIP) or computer related and the dashboard profiles are usually very good in the overall adjustments (ink volume, platen heat, head height, etc); at least with the S40600. Good luck and keep us posted.

I will give that a try.

I recommend you outsource the blue panel file as a sample for yourself and any technician or salesperson to evaluate. If you purchased the so-called “demo” from a dealer, have them print the file and / or send the file to Epson. They should entertain that more an opportunity than a challenge. The exercise is almost guaranteed to be an eye-opener to all parties.

Of matters that are in your control, know that banding is primarily the fault of media feed adjustment / tension, uni-directional / bi-directional head alignment, nozzles, head height, and heater settings in that order. (Discounting operator errors using incorrect setups or media loading troubles and media faults such as sticky coating, physical damage, old age, etc.)

Such a consistent banding pattern is not indicative of environmental or static troubles. The first two points above are easy to troubleshoot and where focus should concentrate. Measure crop or trim mark distances throughout the roll because you say a print begins fine until later, it’s not.

Only if you find the time, maybe explain exactly how the auto and manual adjustments were performed,

Good luck.

I have sent a handful of files to Epson. They said they have printed them. They told me they had similar results. I asked for pictures and for them to send me the prints to look at. They told me they will look in to that. That has been months for the first printer and 2 weeks for this new printer. No answer on that. I have asked 3 different Epson employees multiple times. Makes me think they are not telling the truth. I have been catching them not being truthful. Epson is not happy dealing with this as they cant figure out what the problem is.

The tech ran adjustments on the heads in service mode. I have ran manual and auto feed and head adjustments. I have even setup a 500mm box in ai and printed and measured to make sure it is 500mm.

I can print and cut a 16' contour job no issues. From small pop out decals to contour cut graphics.

I think you're missing the point. He said nozels are dropping out... None of what you said addresses that.

Having 2 different issues. Nozzle drop out on older machine and brand new machine. Also having the "lawn mower" banding issues

Nozzles dropping out are usually caused (here) by the printer needing cleaned. If you're cleaning the head and caps correctly and keeping your maintenance kits replaced correctly this shouldn't be an issue.
After you sort that out, which by the way is NOT causing the lawnmower looking banding, it would cause "strip" banding where you notice a pixel missing every pass then you can move on to the other issue.

1st, on the printer itself, is a material profile you have to set up.
Have it calibrate the feed/etc correctly for the primary material you intend to use. Be sure if it isn't a banner or super thick material that you're set to low head height on that material setting.
Heat should not cause banding issues, we keep our preheaters and platen heaters pretty much off or around 100 degrees, the post-heater we keep pretty hot.

After that, it moves on to your material profile itself on/in the RIP. You might be using a lighter amount of ink than you should be and that's why you're seeing banding.

It looks like ink starvation, which we DO occasionally see in blues here on 4 pass setting on our S60600s.
We usually run everything on 6-pass to ensure no banding, except for banners or other things where banding wouldn't be an issue.

Yes correct. The older machine was cleaned regular and kits replace. This new machine is brand new and nozzle drop out was happening on same day as install. Yes def not causing the lawn mower banding.

I have used 4 different profiles for 3m 40c

Looks like ink starvation to me also. I have increased ink density. puts more ink down but same banding just darker.

When the first printer worked for 2 months it printed amazing at 6 pass

 

[ColorCrest]

Tech is coming tomorrow i will ask him about this.

An item more practical than the antistatic gun is a common-in-trade item found at the following link...
Antistatic garland

 

[netsol]

I think you're missing the point. He said nozels are dropping out... None of what you said addresses that.

but nozzles could be a secondary problem...

 

[netsol]

An item more practical than the antistatic gun is a common-in-trade item found at the following link...
Antistatic garland

but i can never resist the chance to buy a new toy

in truth, i almost never use mine...

 

[frankzilla]

I have an S80600 and I have your issues with mostly Cyan-related color mixes, and almost always 3M profiles. I have contacted Epson support years ago regarding this and the issue seems to be "software" and not hardware. The main culprit I see is the 3M profile.

I have switched over to just using the Orajet and Avery profiles instead for everything and have never had the issue since. I have never had the issue prior to using the 3M profiles and only had the issue while using 3M profiles.

I have had my machine for over 6 years with different heads replaced under warranty, including mainboard and ribbon due to short failures or otherwise random things, but all in all still a workhorse and no lawn mower banding.

The only issue that developed over time is regular pass mark banding with all Cyan-related colors, so I just have to run higher passes on solids that have anything with Cyan. Even with new heads, new board, new Onyx 21 (coming from 12 and 19), and still always the same thing. At 8 passes it's not too big of a deal for things up further away, but 12 passes and higher for things seen up close and scrutinized.

Other than more passes causing more time, it still works perfectly.

***Try switching AWAY from 3M profiles and see if the issue persists if you haven't already tried that.***

Recently upgraded from the S80600 to the R5070 and man, let me tell you, 6 passes look like the previous 8-12 passes, and rolls print out fully at 6 passes in 3 hours. I used to do 4-6 passes on the S80600 early on with no issues, so hopefully, I can stay consistent with fewer passes on the new heads and machine going forward as well. The only thing the S80600 still does better is super fine pixel details and colors for stickers and things up close, still way smoother and better than the R5070, but the R5070 is way better than the HP Latex ones of the past for quality with comparable speed of the current ones.

 

[royalwrapz]

The tech came today. Ran some tests and made some head adjustments. It's helped with the lawn mower banding on 6 and 8 pass. Still visible barely. Said it's the best the printer can do on solid colors. And just print everything on 8 pass

And for the nozzle dropout. Said printing solid color is to much for the printer. Printer can't keep up. Try only printing 6 feet at a time.

During one of his adjustment prints. Nozzles dropped out quite a few. He ran a cleaning and they came back. His words were all you have to do is a cleaning and your good. I ask what about in the middle of a print and they dropout? He said don't print so long.

If it happens again call in.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

The tech came today. Ran some tests and made some head adjustments. It's helped with the lawn mower banding on 6 and 8 pass. Still visible barely. Said it's the best the printer can do on solid colors. And just print everything on 8 pass

And for the nozzle dropout. Said printing solid color is to much for the printer. Printer can't keep up. Try only printing 6 feet at a time.

During one of his adjustment prints. Nozzles dropped out quite a few. He ran a cleaning and they came back. His words were all you have to do is a cleaning and your good. I ask what about in the middle of a print and they dropout? He said don't print so long.

If it happens again call in.

So, he said you're basically limited to a 6' sign??

 

[rjssigns]

The tech came today. Ran some tests and made some head adjustments. It's helped with the lawn mower banding on 6 and 8 pass. Still visible barely. Said it's the best the printer can do on solid colors. And just print everything on 8 pass

And for the nozzle dropout. Said printing solid color is to much for the printer. Printer can't keep up. Try only printing 6 feet at a time.

During one of his adjustment prints. Nozzles dropped out quite a few. He ran a cleaning and they came back. His words were all you have to do is a cleaning and your good. I ask what about in the middle of a print and they dropout? He said don't print so long.

If it happens again call in.

Time to find a new tech that can figure out your printer. Your Epson should have zero issues printing solid colors.
Printed a full wrap on a 38' trailer with my Mutoh using Arlon SLX+. Installer said the solid colors look like cut vinyl.

You may want to try the SLX+. It is what I use and worlds better than their 6000xrp. 6000xrp changed and the last two rolls printed so poorly I thought my print head was going out again.

TLDR: Try the SLX+. It is not always the printer, print head or profile.

 

[royalwrapz]

An update.
Epson told me my humidity and temp were off and causing nozzle drop out. They want it at 52% and 72. That has not helped the issues.
These were run this morning. Happened in the middle of a print. Ran a cleaning and started printing better.

Epson response
No one ever said that by raising the humidity it would help with this type banding that Jesus has already said will not be discussed and service calls will not be set out to address. SEC, our parent company has advised the printer is operating within spec. This you have also already been informed of by Jesus. Raising the humidity was done to address the nozzle dropout.

So this banding is normal and Epson will do nothing about it

 

[frankzilla]

This would be in line with what I mentioned previously regarding Cyan mixture colors and printouts. Had to basically raise passes up to 12 or 16 just to get less noticeability and better results for those smoother color blocks. The results would be in line with when the printer was newer with as low as 4-6 passes.

Have you tried different profiles? Could maybe help with something as well as test out the higher passes until you notice anything different?

If anyone else chimes in with similar issues of different degrees for any cyan-related colors or ones requiring more cyan mix, then we would have a consensus that this is a little more common for Cyan for some reason, either with the ink, the lines, or the head. (This also happens on brand new heads for me as well).

 

[royalwrapz]

This would be in line with what I mentioned previously regarding Cyan mixture colors and printouts. Had to basically raise passes up to 12 or 16 just to get less noticeability and better results for those smoother color blocks. The results would be in line with when the printer was newer with as low as 4-6 passes.

Have you tried different profiles? Could maybe help with something as well as test out the higher passes until you notice anything different?

If anyone else chimes in with similar issues of different degrees for any cyan-related colors or ones requiring more cyan mix, then we would have a consensus that this is a little more common for Cyan for some reason, either with the ink, the lines, or the head. (This also happens on brand new heads for me as well).

This is a new machine well a couple of months old. Has happened since day 1. Higher pass mode leads to more nozzle drop out for me. Happens with all colors, but mostly issues are with blues and greens. I paused the print ran a cleaning and it started print fine. Then about 10 feet it happened again.

Have tried many different profiles, stock, and built profiles.

 

[frankzilla]

I'd definitely keep pushing Epson since it's still new and in warranty. This could be a feed speed issue with the sensor or the feeder settings or hardware. This could also be a malfunction or issue with the mainboard. You can try to get a tech out for something so that they can add onto the work order should they "discover" something else like maybe the ink pump is inconsistent, or there is air in the ink lines causing "gaps" or something of that sort.

For me, this happened to start about 3-4yrs into ownership, and even after multiple head changes for things unrelated while in warranty. Came to the conclusion it wasn't the mainboard, the cap station, the ink bay, the lines, the feed, and the heads. Whether it is the sensor in the head, that is maybe the only thing I am unsure of that may be left. Now onto year 6 and it is about the same thing with 2 new heads and another mainboard.

Not to scare or discourage you, still, the best printer I have for quality, still the best color gamut, and while the banding is not as bad as yours, higher pass counts on anything requiring CYan (green requires cyan since there is no dedicated green), I would still buy it again and considered, if it wasn't for the R5070 Resin that I got instead to try something different. S80600 still beats on superfine quality and color gamut.

 

[frankzilla]

Also, depending on how often you use your machine, run cleaning a little more often if you don't use it as much.

It almost looks as if, given how your nozzle check is so bad prior to cleaning, your capping station might be not configured or seated correctly. This could happen as a result of maybe transport or anything during setup. Just maybe another possibility if it helps get a tech out.

 

[netsol]

i go back to the same question i asked early on.
these are epson tech's? not a tech from a questionable reseller?

it seems unforgivable. you are having problems that i would not tolerate with any of my machines, some of which are 20 years old.

i would certainly back up to some of the questions colorcrest asked early on.
he provided a list of the things that cause that sort of banding. seems like time to give a little thought to how to at least minimize the effect you are getting

 

[jfiscus]

We have three and have never had this issue or this poor of a print. Sounds like you need a new service tech/dealer.

Also, the "quality" of the print overall itself looks questionable here. What DPI is this file set up at?

 

[royalwrapz]

I'd definitely keep pushing Epson since it's still new and in warranty. This could be a feed speed issue with the sensor or the feeder settings or hardware. This could also be a malfunction or issue with the mainboard. You can try to get a tech out for something so that they can add onto the work order should they "discover" something else like maybe the ink pump is inconsistent, or there is air in the ink lines causing "gaps" or something of that sort.

For me, this happened to start about 3-4yrs into ownership, and even after multiple head changes for things unrelated while in warranty. Came to the conclusion it wasn't the mainboard, the cap station, the ink bay, the lines, the feed, and the heads. Whether it is the sensor in the head, that is maybe the only thing I am unsure of that may be left. Now onto year 6 and it is about the same thing with 2 new heads and another mainboard.

Not to scare or discourage you, still, the best printer I have for quality, still the best color gamut, and while the banding is not as bad as yours, higher pass counts on anything requiring CYan (green requires cyan since there is no dedicated green), I would still buy it again and considered, if it wasn't for the R5070 Resin that I got instead to try something different. S80600 still beats on superfine quality and color gamut.

The first machine everything heads, pumps, caps, ink bays, main board was all replaced 2x. nothing fixed the issue. Sent new machine. On day of install, running a print nozzle drop out a few feet into print. Epson Tech filled the lines again. Same thing on next print. Then finally able to print the rest of the day no issues. Next day same nozzle drop out in middles of prints.

Machine is being used 4-5 times a week. That last nozzle print was in the middle of a print that I had to cancel because of banding. I run cleaning and nozzle print before every print. And it is always different nozzles missing

i go back to the same question i asked early on.
these are epson tech's? not a tech from a questionable reseller?

it seems unforgivable. you are having problems that i would not tolerate with any of my machines, some of which are 20 years old.

i would certainly back up to some of the questions colorcrest asked early on.
he provided a list of the things that cause that sort of banding. seems like time to give a little thought to how to at least minimize the effect you are getting

Yes these are Epson Techs. Not decision one.
I have sent files to Epson. They said the test files were similar to my prints. I asked for them to send them to me 3 different times so I could compare for myself. They would never give me an answer and finally said they dont have them.

Everything has been gone though multiple times. These pictures are in the middle of a print. Started out beautiful then nozzles start missing and this is the result. I paused the printer between panels ran a cleaning and started printing beautiful. Then again about 10 feet.

Epson is absolute avoiding this. I cant even get a return phone call. Tech or customer service.

When it prints it is awesome

We have three and have never had this issue or this poor of a print. Sounds like you need a new service tech/dealer.

Also, the "quality" of the print overall itself looks questionable here. What DPI is this file set up at?

This printer is great when it works. I hear nothing but great things about them. I am told I am dealing with the tech supervisor at Epson. I have had 3 Different Epson techs here and none of them know what the issue is. They keep sayin it is a new printer and nothing is wrong with it.

This is on a Bus 72

 

[weyandsign]

You keep posting the same pics and Epson told you that your file looks like that when they print it too? What about printing something else? Same problem? Try a generic non-3m profile?