Need Help set cut start location

[Geoff]

Hi

I'm a newbie to cutters. I am considering buying a 9000 cutter.

All my cuts will be rectangles only. Can anyone tell me if I will have the ability to determine the corner at which the knife starts?

I need to be able to tell it which corner to start from... to always start the cut from the second pair of corners, so it scrolls past the 1st 2 corners and start from one of the 2nd 2 corners.

For example, if A,B,C & D are the four corners...

A---------B
| ~ ~ ~ ~ |
| ~ ~ ~ ~ |
C---------D

I need the knife to start at B, then cut in this order: B > D > C > A > B

Is this possible?

FWIW, I plan to use Onyx when support arrives for the 9000

Cheers
Geoff

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I think if you draw the box using nodes rather than a rectangle tool, it will cut in order of being drawn. Not 100% on this though, as the cutting software can "optimize" the paths for faster cut times.

 

[unclebun]

You are a newbie to cutters. Why do you think it will be important to command the cutter which vector to start from when it cuts a square?

Every curve has a vector which is the start/end vector. You can set which vector is the start vector in your sign software when creating the file. You can also control curve direction in the sign software. These are not controls of the cutter itself, but the software creating the file.

As far as I know Onyx's cutting module has no control for setting the start point for a curve.

 

[jimmmi]

Probably you can do this using Cutting Master 4

 

[jimmmi]

But I didn't understand the reason of cutting with specific direction. Clockwise either counterclockwise. Can you please explain?

 

[signage]

But I didn't understand the reason of cutting with specific direction. Clockwise either counterclockwise. Can you please explain?

I also don't see how the start position and direction can make a difference if the cutter is set up correctly, would be able to tell were it started and ended after it has finished cutting.

 

[Geoff]

Thanks for your replies

It sounds like Cutting Master is where I will start.

The reason the cutting order is important :

I'm printing book and box covers on 44" media. We currently cut with a Fotoba (X axis only) and it is too labor intensive, so I'm hoping to move to a cutter. The covers are pretty much random in size, but on average they about 100 x 45 cm and always simple rectangle cuts.

\We currently print them vertically, up to 3 side by side on the 44" roll. This doesn't seem to work on cutters such as Graphtec as the media gets to unstable when advancing and retracting the media to do the long cuts.

So I have rotated the print so the covers now run across the media, and there's only ever 1 across. This is definitely more stable as it has to retract as far. But now I'd like to ensure the last cut is the "top" cut - the 2nd long edge. This is so that it drops off the machine neatly.

Using my example below, the default from Onyx seems to be to cut D > C > A > B > D. Which means that the cover has all but fallen off the machine while it is still trying to cut the final edge (the right edge). With covers that are 100cm long, it can end up damaged.

By forcing it to cut B > D > C > A > B, there is less chance of damage and the cover can fall more neatly.

A------------------------------B
| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |
| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |
C------------------------------D

Any alternated suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[jimmmi]

Now makes sense. The truth is I haven't tried on the Graphtec but I am curious to check it. On CNC this is possible be setting start point and also direction reverse or not but cnc uses gcode. Using HPGL and GPGL on Graphtec i dont know but i will test it

 

[Geoff]

Thanks Jimmmi

I have been studying the xpf file format in the hopes that it gives a clue.

Ultimately I hope to have our tech team write the cutting instructions into an xpf file, and hopefully the order of the instructions in that file will determine the start point.

Cheers
Geoff

 

[jimmmi]

Thanks Jimmmi

I have been studying the xpf file format in the hopes that it gives a clue.

Ultimately I hope to have our tech team write the cutting instructions into an xpf file, and hopefully the order of the instructions in that file will determine the start point.

Cheers
Geoff

Did you try setting start point to Corel for example?

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Have you tried feeding the printed material into the cutter upside down and telling CutServer to rotate cut cut by 180 degrees and then doing the cut?
I think it should reverse the order to cut similar to how you are describing your wishes above.

Other question, which Fotoba cutter are/were you using for this job?

 

[ikarasu]

You have an option of cutting layers, or colors in order. So you could theoretically have -

B red c blue d black a pink and tell it to cut those colors in order and then send however many copies you want. It'll achieve what you want. A bit more effort in initial setup... But still not too bad.

 

[Geoff]

Have you tried feeding the printed material into the cutter upside down and telling CutServer to rotate cut cut by 180 degrees and then doing the cut?
I think it should reverse the order to cut similar to how you are describing your wishes above.

Other question, which Fotoba cutter are/were you using for this job?

I'm feeding 30 metre rolls. After printing, the rolls are laminated, so the print is essentially reversed by that process.

We have a Fotoba Digitrim 62. It's been brilliant but it's 12 years old and on its last legs (and labour intensive)

 

[Geoff]

Did you try setting start point to Corel for example?

We print 30m at a time with about 80 covers in that length. My knowledge of Corel is pretty outdated, but I don't recall it being suited for this. Let me know if I'm missing something

 

[Geoff]

You have an option of cutting layers, or colors in order. So you could theoretically have -

B red c blue d black a pink and tell it to cut those colors in order and then send however many copies you want. It'll achieve what you want. A bit more effort in initial setup... But still not too bad.

Thanks Ikarasu. Which software do you use to set up the different cuts?

 

[jimmmi]

We print 30m at a time with about 80 covers in that length. My knowledge of Corel is pretty outdated, but I don't recall it being suited for this. Let me know if I'm missing something

If you want to use Cutting Master 4 you have to use Corel or Illustrator

 

[ikarasu]

I use illustrator. But onyx can do the same thing.

I believe the free graphtec studio software that comes with the graphtec can also do it... All software generally let's you pick which tool and cut order for different stroke colors.

It's more of a crude way to do what you want, but it does accomplish it. The paid version of graphtec studio (500) says it allows you to set cut order, but I haven't tried it so I can't confirm it works or not.

 

[unclebun]

You're cutting all the way through the material? That's the problem. Roll cutters aren't made to do that. And when you do need to cut all the way through, you need to use the perf cut feature which cuts essentially a dotted line so you can punch out the decal afterwards.

That said, after over a decade of watching Onyx cut our decals, I am certain that it follows the start point and loop direction that comes from the design software.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I'm feeding 30 metre rolls. After printing, the rolls are laminated, so the print is essentially reversed by that process.

We have a Fotoba Digitrim 62. It's been brilliant but it's 12 years old and on its last legs (and labour intensive)

Okay, but after you have laminated the print, the end result is correctly oriented again on the roll, so not exactly what I suggested testing.
You may need to pass the job through the laminator a second time on high speed with the rollers up just to reverse the winding of the print. You want the Graphtec to cut the last thing printed first. The barcode should end in "B" not "T".
This would flip the orientation of the cuts and may solve your issue.

However, since these are just rectangles I would still be using the Fotoba for this... it's what it was designed for: High volume X axis cutting.
It should be able to cut the entire 30m roll in ~5 minutes from the artwork size you've described, and then maybe another 10 feeding them back through for the "Y" cuts. What part of the process do you refer to as 'labour intensive'? (Not trying to be a d*** here... asking an honest question).
We just bought a DigiTrim 64 for this use alone and it's so much faster and more reliable than trying to do this with our Graphtec which as mentioned by UncleBun should really be using the perforated cut feature or the job will inevitably jam.

 

[Geoff]

Okay, but after you have laminated the print, the end result is correctly oriented again on the roll, so not exactly what I suggested testing.
You may need to pass the job through the laminator a second time on high speed with the rollers up just to reverse the winding of the print. You want the Graphtec to cut the last thing printed first. The barcode should end in "B" not "T".
This would flip the orientation of the cuts and may solve your issue.

I get it now

However, since these are just rectangles I would still be using the Fotoba for this... it's what it was designed for: High volume X axis cutting.
It should be able to cut the entire 30m roll in ~5 minutes from the artwork size you've described, and then maybe another 10 feeding them back through for the "Y" cuts. What part of the process do you refer to as 'labour intensive'? (Not trying to be a d*** here... asking an honest question).
We just bought a DigiTrim 64 for this use alone and it's so much faster and more reliable than trying to do this with our Graphtec which as mentioned by UncleBun should really be using the perforated cut feature or the job will inevitably jam.

As you suggest, the 1st pass is not so labour intensive. The second set of passes is though, as it requires the left and right ends to be cut for all of the 80 to 100 covers on a roll (and we do about 4 rolls per day). It works but it's tedious, and I'm hoping to find a simpler way. I wish our covers were all the same size, as then we could use an XY Fotoba, but that's not possible.

And finally, if I do manage to make it work on a cutter, then I hope to make one more improvement - to cut diagonals at all four corners as this will save yet another manual task in our bindery.
Excuse the crude graphics - I know I can do attachments, but ascii art is more fun

/-------------------------------\
| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |
| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |
\___________________/