*sigh* It happened again...

[john1]

Hey everyone, I sound like a broken record but i really am fed up with having my time wasted. I'm sure it's the way business goes but i can't take this anymore.

I have received a quote via email from a customer wanting boat graphics.They were sent by a current customer of mine. They wanted a boat name on the back of their boat. No problem, we set up a meeting for Friday to get a deposit, sizing, colors and the design going. They agree to all the above.

The meeting is going well, I open my laptop to show some possible rough concepts from the feedback on their ideas and they finally pick a lettering style they like and i add a shadow to it with some other jazz to make it more appealing.

They said they need to go to the marina to do some things to their boat before it goes in the water in a few weeks and won't make it back down until then. They said let us get that done and we can get you a deposit before we leave to go 2 hours back home since the marina closes shortly. No problem.

So i then go back to my home office and i ended up calling them and asking to stop into the marina which is 10 minutes down the road because i wanted to measure up everything.

I go measure everything and good thing i did because the guy said it's about 18" tall x 5' and it was really 36x12". So i go alright i need a deposit of 50% and i can order the materials and get things going. The other 50% will be due upon installation. They said "Alright no problem"....

"Oh we will call you next week sometime, We want to make sure this is what we want on the boat and that we don't change our minds"



I literally wanted to tell them that i refuse to go any further with this job and thank you for wasting my time.

Now yes they could actually call but i highly doubt they will as this happens WAY TOO MUCH around here and nobody ever answers calls or call you back.

I guess my mistake was not getting a deposit up front for the design but when you have things going smooth you'd think things would be alright. I have nobody to blame but myself i suppose but i just feel i give my all and people could care less. Alot of people won't pay for anything without seeing concepts so this is why i usually do rough concepts on my laptop.

Any tips on what to do besides the obvious to prevent this from happening again? (get deposit before even meeting)

 

[JR's]

I guess my mistake was not getting a deposit up front for the design but when you have things going smooth you'd think things would be alright.)

Ding ding ding! we have a winner. ;-}


JR

 

[jiarby]

Your only defense against this is your sales techiques.

You show them your portfolio of previous work to get them to believe that you have the capability to complete their job to their satisfaction...

You explain what you charge for a couple different sizes, and what you charge for options... multi-color, gold leaf, hand painted, print/lam, multiple locations, etc...

You explain how your job process works.
1. After collecting the down (or complete) payment you will measure and/or photograph the boat.
2. You will complete a draft showing how the art will look on their boat. At the price quoted you get <x> revisions. Any art or font that has to be purchased is in addition to the price quoted.
3. After customer approval of the proof you will produce the graphic. At that time the customer can pick up the RTA decal or shedule an installation appointment.
4. If customer desires installation, then installation prices are quoted in addition to prthe RTA decal price. Installation costs depend on complexity of job (boat size, location, travel costs, equipment rental costs, surface prep, etc...)

Here is our simple one page order form... sign here and we will get working!!

You should NOT have to do actual design work before collecting money for the job. Your problem came from not properly profiling the customer on the phone and going through the above steps.

Tell the next one to bring the boat to your shop next time. Then you can show them your portfolio, close the deal, take pix and measure the boat all at once. If they want you to travel to the marina, then you add travel costs to the quote and get them to agree that the price is what they had in mind.

 

[MikePro]

Survey, sell, deposit, design, fab, install, collect, and drink beer... in that order

 

[Fred Weiss]

No rudeness intended. My impression is that ...

1. You aren't qualifying your customers well enough.

Is the customer really ready to commit to the order? If there is any reluctance, you need to determine why before you spend any time in designing, measuring etc. or attempting to close the sale.

2. You haven't sold the customers on you as their source.

This is often what is at the heart of the matter described in #1. It may be the lack of showing a portfolio of other work you've done. It may be something underlying in the words you use or the way you come across.

3. You aren't closing the sale when you need to do so.

The sale should have been closed before they left the meeting. Try using an "Order Form" presentation and close on an "Alternate of Choice" or "When". If you don't understand that answer, Google them or ask for more of an explanation. Never close on price ... if price becomes the focus of the presentation, you aren't handling the presentation correctly. Never close on design ... only design after the sale has been closed.

4. You are too focused on getting the deposit.

If you control the sales presentation by using an order form, the form becomes your closing instrument when you present it to them for signature and payment of the deposit. If they aren't prepared to sign the form yet, then you have made a "trial close" that pointed out that they aren't yet ready to commit. You must now back up and determine what the objection is and resolve it. When you do and they are ready to sign the order, the expectation of a deposit is spelled out on the form and is automatically handled.

5. You are not "Assuming the Sale".

Even though you may be qualifying your prospective customer, selling yourself and defining the customer's needs, you should always be in the mindset that you are simply taking an order and that the customer is sold on you. You are the wizard ... the professional who will supply the customer with a "solution" to their needs. The sale is a foregone conclusion.

 

[Flame]

Well I now refuse to design for customers until I have cash in hand, and WILL NOT, unless it's a friend, WILL NOT let them peek over the shoulder and watch me design, pick fonts etc. I won't even let them back into my office/ production area. I'm the professional, I pick your fonts, your colors, your layout. NOT YOU.

I lost some customers but man...it's relieved a lot of stress. Gotta tell you.

 

[signmeup]

Good advice there Fred. I'm going to print it out and stick it up on my bulletin board.

 

[Jillbeans]

It all worked well till you whipped out your laptop.
Never ever design without a deposit.
My procedure is the same as jiarby's.
Love....Jill

 

[Border]

It's tough in the early stages. Best thing you can do is to build your portfolio. The portfolio will eventually ease people's mind that you know what you're doing. Speak confidently about your portfolio and how you do NOT do design work without deposits, other than maybe a sketch.

PS, the sketch, or anything else NEVER gets handed over or emailed without a deposit!

One way you can ease their mind and continue to build your portfolio is ask for a small "good faith" design deposit to cover your time. Even if it's only $35.00 or whatever. This will seem like a lesser risk to them and it usually helps to secure a new client while you are building your portfolio. Most people don't want to risk a big deposit on a sign shop who 'appears' to be under experienced. But if you can take that small deposit and show them a solid design, chances are you will get that job. THEN you get the 50% deposit on the actual job before proceeding any further.
Eventually, you can just point them to your [hopefully great] portfolio and ask for a deposit up front.
Make sure to ALWAYS watermark you design proofs. It helps keep honest people honest at least.

Remember, the more hungry you appear, the harder it will be to land a project. Be confident!

 

[JR's]

Good advice there Fred. I'm going to print it out and stick it up on my bulletin board.

me two if that is OK.

 

[vinylbarry]

Fred

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

Above statements

 

[Rooster]

You're talking about a job that was at most 7.5 square feet of vinyl (now 3). I give those guys a price and a list of things "they" need to do for me to accomplish what they want.

There's not enough in a project like that to ever recover the cost of doing site surveys, measurements etc. Unless they're paying your shop rate for every trip and phone conversation you're bound to lose money. If they are they're going to find out the cost of a 3 square foot RTA decal and think you're the biggest rip-off artist they've ever met.

Why bother? If it was for a government or large corporate client, then you jump through the hoops and bill accordingly. For a small client who just wants a name on his boat, it's not worth the effort.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Oh and I forgot to mention ... when you brought out the laptop, you quite possibly made it look too easy so that your prospect saw you as a semi-skilled mouse jockey.

 

[stickerman68]

i hear ya rooster.... small job like that probably run them off with all the fees and extra stuff... sometimes simple is better

 

[John Butto]

Fred's good advice

I think the customers are like Fred and they felt like your more interested in taking their money than lettering their boat. To some people boats are more important than their children. Not everyone is out to rip you off and you have to have a plan on how you take it step by step so they are happy with your work and you are happy with their money.

 

[Custom_Grafx]

John1,

I hear you.

Had a similar thing happen last week. Fortunately though, using an order form/invoice before starting anything that would make me mad if it fell through, I avoided the pain.

They started pushing for an urgent install, and I was 2 seconds away from ordering the material. Went through my checklist... WAIT A MINUTE! I still haven't received the deposit!!!

This was all clearly outlined in my quote and conditions, and discussed... all of a sudden, there are some 'financial delays'. please... pull the other one.

This was then followed by more quote requests on bigger work, which I refused to get back to without hesitation.

If you have a sales team of 4 full time butt kissers, go ahead and tell em to pamper people like this - you need every cent.

If you're a one man show, forget it and move on I say, your time is far too valuable.

Lay it out clearer next time and don't be scared to be more assertive. Of course you make sure you do your best in terms of your presentation... and it doesn't hurt to self review every now and then and improve on your weak points... but if after all that, they still aren't interested or have a hard on for your services... well guess what, you can't make everyone happy... it's sad but a fact.

 

[FrankenSigns.biz]

I have two sales people. They know how to close a sale. Sometimes when I'm in my office I'll hear Bill out front talking to a client and every few moments he'll do a soft close, then a few moments later he'll go a little more for a hard close. There is nothing wrong with asking for the sale. We do it every day. Sometimes a hard close sounds a bit forward, but sometimes can be as simple as,

"All we need is a 50% deposit and we can have your boat wrapped by Friday".

If you are uncomfortable asking for the sale you need to learn how to do it NOW. It's the most important part of the sales process and is expected by the customer. They are in your shop to buy something. They may have driven many miles to get there. If you ask for the sale and they walk, move on. At least they won't be wasting your time.

The 10 most powerful 2 letter words; "If it is to be—it is up to me"

We are all in the sales business folks. Those of us here who know how to ask for the sale are more successful than those of us here who don't.

If asking for the sale makes you uneasy you might want to start looking for another profession. If you want more sales you need to get comfortable with closing the sale.

 

[Arlo Kalon 2.0]

Any tips on what to do besides the obvious to prevent this from happening again? (get deposit before even meeting)

Reminds me of a time a magazine publisher friend of mine sent me on a referral to go see one of his advertisers about lettering his huge yacht. Drove 25 miles to the marina to meet the guy. He showed me a layout from someone else. I diplomatically critiqued it and talked him into letting me do something more apropos. I came back next day with a superb layout and when I gave him the price he said "we'll go with what we have. You're $12.00 higher than our other bid." SOB! I wadded it up and threw it in the water beside his boat and said "go ahead and save your precious $12.00 for that sucky layout".

 

[john1]

Thanks for all the information guys, Can anyone post or PM me with a sample PDF of their actual check list form so i can have something to go off of and make for myself? I am business friends with someone who does offset printing so would carbonless forms be good for this check list?

Thanks guys!