Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Sign forms & Non-Compete Agreement

Discussion in 'Business Management' started by JAMEY, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. JAMEY

    JAMEY Member

    346
    0
    16
    Sep 8, 2007
    New York
    Who was that company that had some nice sign forms for estimates and other stuff we can buy? Anybody have a link?

    Also, what about a non-compete agreement? Anybody have any they can share?
     
    Tags:
  2. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Major Contributor

    10,882
    16
    0
    Dec 5, 2003
    .:Big Laugh
     
  3. Sticky Signs

    Sticky Signs Very Active Member

    1,154
    0
    36
    Nov 9, 2009
    Vancouver
    What do you want a non-compete for? As far as I know, they're useless. No one can prevent you from making a living and providing for your family by doing what you do.
     
  4. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

    8,520
    8
    38
    Jun 24, 2003
    michigan
    Please check again. They are not always useless. And yes, you can stop someone from doing certain things such as using your propitiatory techniques.
     
  5. Stealth Ryder

    Stealth Ryder Very Active Member

    1,722
    0
    36
    Jul 16, 2009
    Texas
    They are not worth the paper they are printed on if the person is willing to pay a lawyer to fight till the end... No judge will deny a person to make a living, not good for said judge come election time and simply will not hold up in court... This battle has been fought many times and when the employee stands up for himself he always wins unless there are circumstances where he intended to harm the former employer in some way... If he/she is simply trying to make a living doing what he/she knows they will always prevail... Many cases have been gone before a judge, google it...
     
  6. JAMEY

    JAMEY Member

    346
    0
    16
    Sep 8, 2007
    New York
    JHill, that was the one I was looking for. Much appreciated.

    And about the non-compete agreement. Thanks for the info. The Non-Compete was meant for outsourcing some of the things I can't do like channel letters. I just don't want to have another company I might use for outsourcing try and steal a job from me.
     
  7. JESSE WALKER

    JESSE WALKER Member

    29
    0
    0
    Dec 17, 2009
    I saw first hand how ugly it can get with a neighbor of ours...even had a PI watching the neighbor and taking notes of everyone around. He was a contractor for a oil company, decided to go at it on his own.took almost 100k in lawyer fee's(and at that point he had not made a dime on his own yet).

    It just comes down to who can afford to pay lawyers the longest sometimes.



    we use non-competes when outsourcing jobs. It has worked well for us so far.
     
  8. G-Artist

    G-Artist Active Member

    526
    0
    0
    Jan 25, 2010
    I guess I read a different set of law journals than most here.

    Non-competes when properly written and in conformity to state law
    work very well.

    If they didn't work would you take out a mortage and buy an existing sign shop
    knowing the guy you bought it from could open a new shop down the street
    and do so with impunity even though he signed one with you?
     
  9. binki

    binki Premium Subscriber

    1,543
    41
    48
    Jul 23, 2007
    The PRC
    We never sign a non-compete from those that wholesale through us and we would never ask those we outsource work to to sign one either. If anyone screws us we just don't do business with them any more, much less painful and cost effective.
     
  10. Sticky Signs

    Sticky Signs Very Active Member

    1,154
    0
    36
    Nov 9, 2009
    Vancouver
    My Bad, i thought you where talking about using the non-compete for an employer to employee relationship. As far as I know, those are bogus. Don't know much about using non-compete when it comes to outsourcing. I'd say if you can't trust the outsource company, don't bother using them.
     
  11. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

    8,520
    8
    38
    Jun 24, 2003
    michigan
    Google it means nothing. Google does not write laws.

    I think one should check with his local legal eagle. Non compete contracts do work when properly written. There are rules to follow. Just declaring that someone cannot compete with a business does not work. Specific specifications, time limits and geographical limits are allowed and will prevail.

    The most recent example of this is the BP oil spills and the hiring of certain professional persons. Some have refused to sign the exclusive agreements thus avoiding being locked into silence.
     
  12. Ken

    Ken Major Contributor

    5,484
    2
    38
    Feb 7, 2005
    BC
    My last day-job did include a non-competition clause. It would have been very easy to work around it.
    Cheers!
    Ken
     
  13. royster13

    royster13 Very Active Member

    1,817
    2
    38
    Apr 3, 2009
    Montrose BC
    I think it is far different as it applies to a former employee versus a person who has sold a business........
     
  14. binki

    binki Premium Subscriber

    1,543
    41
    48
    Jul 23, 2007
    The PRC
    A non compete for an employee can be valid but it depends on how restrictive it is. they are generally not enforceable outside of some very specific situations. I doubt if a sign shop employee could be held to one.

    For the sale of a biz it sure is enforceable.

    I took the op question to mean someone coming in to buy stuff from us and wanting us to sign a non compete or us having our vendors sign one. That I would never do, nor sign a non-disclosure.
     
  15. JAMEY

    JAMEY Member

    346
    0
    16
    Sep 8, 2007
    New York
    So does anybody have any non-compete forms they use for outsourcing?
     
  16. OldPaint

    OldPaint Major Contributor

    NON-COMPETE AGREEMENTS ARE...........USELESS!!!!! specially in what to OP is wanting them for. Outsourcing your work, is not where they are intended to be used.
    if you use a LOCAL(up to 50 miles)shop to build things for you, then you are the dum-dum here. nothing you can do if they bid against you next time that cleint needs something. THATS FREE MARKET COMPETTITION.
    i ve seen 2 really bad NON-COMPETE sales.
    while living in sarasota, a very lucritive towing company/mechanic shop sold the business. a NON-COMPETE agreement was created between the new owner, the old owner and his wife...........COULD NOT start a business within 100 miles of old business.
    WELLLLLLLL, next thing ya know, a new towing/mechanic shop opens ON THE SAME BLOCK..............as the old one. DIFFERENT NAME, then the old owners, but was the old owners SON-IN-LAW'S name of registation!!!!!!!!! guess where the money for this new business came from??????? within 2 years, the shop that was sold..........WENT UNDER!!!!!
    the other one, was while here in pcola. freind of mine bought a SIGN SHOP out near the beach. was a NON-COMPETE drawn up. the oeiginal owner was not to engage in a sign realated businesswithin 50 miles of old shop. my freind was bustin his hump cranking out nice work and payin the shop off. about a year after the sale............another sign shop opened............less then 10 miles, from the sold shop!!!!!!!! my freinds clients was falling off and was getting hard to make any money. seems the guy that sold 1st shop, was taking the money my freind was paying to him.............OPENS this other shop, UNDER SOMEONE ELSES OWNERSHIP...........and the seller of the 1st shop was his "silent partner."
    so much for non-competes.
     
  17. Stealth Ryder

    Stealth Ryder Very Active Member

    1,722
    0
    36
    Jul 16, 2009
    Texas
    Employer vs. Former Employee, this is what I was reffering to... It is useless, have seen it fought in court in 2 cases in my area... Both cases, the former employee won with very little argument other than they were trying to make a living doing what they are trained to do... Common sense...
     
  18. 10sacer

    10sacer Active Member

    775
    7
    18
    Apr 30, 2008
    Concord, NC
    Non-compete

    You don't want a non-compete - you want a non-disclosure agreement.
    Those are VERY enforceable as the limitations are explicitly spelled out in the agreement. i.e. If I bring you work from X company - you are not to tell anyone outside of immediate need to know or need to produce and it is enforceable for the entire company.

    Now the hard thing to prove is if a competitor shows up at company X and starts selling against you - how do you prove what lead them there? Stickier situation if you end up outsourcing things to the same wholesale outfit as your competitor. If the wholesale place ends up calling ion them and the customer is a true retail client - then the wholesaler is prohibited by state law from calling on retail clients (at least here in North Carolina) and you can get the state Dept. of Commerce involved. Once again - its who is willing to pay the lawyers the most for the longest!

    I use a company locally that lets me bee-bop through the whole plant while my stuff is getting finished - if I was a low-life P.O.S. - I could very easily write down all the names of accounts I see on job jackets and start calling on them - seems like thats what you are asking to prevent?

    With enough time and feet on the street - I could hit every account in the country... eventually!
     
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...