Sign Rider Suggestions - Need Help

[OlgaTudor]

Ok, I know nothing about sign making, I've been lurking the forums for a while, but now I need your help guys.

I am a photographer that works mainly for Real Estate Agents. So, what does that have with Sign Making? Apparently nothing.... so here it goes...

I do (also) websites for my clients. They want to advertise the name of the website with those Riders. These riders are on top of the regular Real estate poles... and it's 6 x 24 piece of... I don't know what, on which is a web address written, usually with black letters. Exactly what the substrate is I don't know how to call it, It's sort of plastic... some are solid, some are empty on the inside... some air channels, some are just a very thick piece of cardboard, glossy to resist elements

My first choice was to talk with some local sign companies to make me these signs. And I did... but it's a hassle... Delayed work, mistakes, I have to constant micromanage them etc. Tried with 3 companies pretty much the same results, more or less. I guess these riders are not a biggie for them so I don't get the level of attention I would expect.

I'm starting to explore the idea of producing those myself. Can anyone of you Sign gurus give me some advice about this. I need something that would do fast results, and stay cheap enough to afford it.

I don't have 30k to invest in this... I want to solve a headache

The bottom line is I need some help.

Thank you in advance.


Olga

 

[TheSnowman]

If I were you I'd probably contact another company. If I were looking for a photographer to take pics for me, and no one at the company's I'd tried would give me the answers I wanted, I'd just go to another one, local or not.

 

[Rick]

You are going to get a lot of opinions coming from different directions. I can see sign shops in your area not prioritizing your work... there really is no money in it when the overhead they have is so much...

Did you try a shop like Signs Now, Fast Signs, or Sign-A-Rama? They may be more inclined to do smaller jobs.

On doing this for yourself you will need to invest in around 2000-3000 in plotter and bridge software on an entry level professional system, then there is the layout software.... Corel is around 400 bucks, Illustrator is around 500. Corel has more bang for the buck with a Photo manipulation software comparible to photoshop and fonts. I am a Illustrator user myself. There are cheaper hobby systems but since i am not a hobbyist, I can't really recommend anything.

You may want to get a little training on your software www.lynda.com can get you started on the basics of Corel and Illustrator.

You will need vinyl, app tape and possibly an app tape dispenser and various tools that will cost around 500-750 bucks, then there are the blanks. Sign-Mart in Orange can supply those.

I just wanted to add, with the learning curve, equipment, supplies and labor you are looking at around 400+ sign riders before you break even on the initial investment.

 

[OlgaTudor]

If the budget is $5k, I'm kind of ready... I do have Corel Draw and CS3 already (the whole suite) already. Very proficient in Layout Software, Illustrator and Corel Draw... and kind of handy to...

I just need the base ideas how to do this in an efficient way. Should I cut letters? Should I print them an a 6x24 vinyl and then laminate and ten collate on the substrate?

What plotter should I buy? What are the cost of printing, Vinyl... what vinyl do I need for printing? Is there a Vinyl that printed lasts few months out there?

Thank you guys for all input...

 

[Rick]

How many are you doing at a time? Different websites?

5,000 dollars you are pretty much stuck with nice vinyl cutting system and that will work fine. If you need them printed then add 15-30k to the budget, there are plenty of online vendors to supply and guide you on that and then you can apply the vinyl to the substrate yourself. Some vendors are as low as 3 bucks a square foot, most have a minumum size order.

 

[Rick]

i forgot, on the plotter recommendations, I prefer Summa, Graphtec and Gerber (the Gerber is out of your price range). other decent plotters are Roland, Ioline and Anagraph.

 

[fastcut]

For what you are doing I would get something cheap from SignWarehouse. They have 24" cutters for under $1000 that come with the software and some vinyl.

FYI...I bought a 24" Gerber new, came with Omega Software, 5 hours in home training on the machine...and had a computer built for about 5K...so it's in your budget if you want good, upgradeable, sign equipment. But I don't think it's necessary for what you're doing.

 

[OlgaTudor]

I guess I need masking tape to. and applicator, and squeegees and and and... where do I get those from?

What can I expect to have consumable costs for my signs? let's say it's coruplastic (see, I already started to learn) with letters applied both sides...

just a guesstimate....

I can cut the 18x24 Plastic sheet in 3 to have 3 6x24. Now there is the vinyl and the masking tape left to be acounted of.

I saw those approx $700 cutters. Would those do the job? I mean, can i expect them to be able to do these signs ok for 2-3 years without breaking?

The signs I do are 1-2-3 of them or so, for each job...

 

[Rick]

You can get your supplies at Montroy, N. Glantz, Interstate Electric, Sign-Mart and Mclogan..

Signmart has 4'x8' sheets of coroplast for around 30 bucks.

The reason I did not consider the cheap plotters is because I view them as hobby plotters no matter what marketing a sign suppliers says. The tracking is usually poor, but that probably can do what you need them to do. If you stick making topper signs the you may be fine, a professional plotter is something you would grow into without the need to upgrade later. I you have already spent 1900 bucks for Adobe Creative Suite and 400 for Corel, you already appreciate the need and the cost of professional tools.

 

[TheSnowman]

I think you need to go to a sign show somewhere to get your information if you are looking to invest up to 5K in this. These are very basic needs, and you can get them from any vendor you choose, but you need to find a good vendor that you can order from.

 

[Rick]

kraigsnowden has a good point, next month is the NBM show in Long Beach....

http://www.nbmshows.com/

 

[DPD]

How in the world can three sign companies mess up a simple rider? What type of sign companies are you working with and what type of pricing are they offering you?

Just seems weird. Anyone on this site can probably produce those things lickety split and on-time.

 

[OlgaTudor]

Is not that they mess it all the time. Dont want to fill up the mass complaint...

Prices they charged me were between $12 - 20 each sign.

The biggest problem was that they will never do them instantly, as my customers wants them, takes them 2-3 days to have them ready. then I pick them up. Two times, they were mistaken, 2 different companies. They replaced them free, but induced another 1 day delay...

If I do them myself, I get out of the delay loop completely (and also save some money/piece)

I'll would do like 20-30 these kind of signs a week.

 

[TheSnowman]

Well, I'm sayin' that the $12 is a REALLY good price. I charge a MINIMUM of like $20 for a standard 24" rider. I don't know why you would have so much trouble with them, but I think that if you walked in and told them that you were looking to order 20 - 30 of these a week, they'd work with you. We have several realtors that need things instantly...but we pull it off each and every time because they order so much from us. I think they just need educated.

We don't like people to just blow sunshine up our butts. Don't go in there and tell them how much business you'll bring them. You will have to earn their respect probably to be taken as a serious repeat customer. We've all been bit by the "I'm gonna order a ton of these" things. Either order them in bigger amounts, so that it's an actual "job" for them, and not just a little tiny order one at a time, and they may work with you on the price. You not really looking to get into the sign business other than to make these little riders, really tells me that you should just stick to what you know, and leave this to someone who does it for a living. You just need another company.

 

[OlgaTudor]

Of course you dont... I wouldnt like it either. I can't guarantee the volume... is however the business goes, sometimes more, sometimes less, as I can imagine you know already...

Maybe having more control over the signmaking will give me more control over how I manage my clients.

I signed myself for the Sign Show in Long Beach. Maybe I will be able to find my suppliers there.

I dont want to make competition to the sign companies... just want to streamline my work faster.

 

[Rick]

At the sign shops I worked at, (most of them in Orange County) it was extremely rare that we dropped everything to whip out a job that would take 1-2 hours from start to finish... even more rare for 2 or 3 coro signs. Most people want their graphics yesterday and most jobs have the same priority. I don't know how much other people pay in other parts of the country but an Orange county sign shop can be paying 20-40 bucks a square foot for rent, so you can imagine, the volume is pretty high in a vinyl sign shop. I don't think it's realistic to get them done asap. Most smaller shops who have to gross 1200-2000 a day will probably always try to sneak a small job in between larger jobs. I can see taking them in-house to better serve your clients is probably not a bad idea.

 

[OlgaTudor]

Rick. You think the coro riders are a viable solution? I mean, my concern is aren't they to light up there on the pole? Or should I go with other substrate, something more sturdy/heavy... any suggestions?

 

[Rick]

Depends on how fast houses are selling these days...

Coro can last 1-3 years but considered a temp sign substrate. I have seen coro signs fall apart in a couple of months out here in the IE.

When i made these signs, I used aluminum, but these signs are re-used.

 

[fastcut]

I use sintra but that's because I got a deal on a load of some precut 2x4 sheets...but my customer is my brother so...no complaints yet! I charge him $8 each.

 

[Pat Whatley]

I am a photographer

riders are not a biggie for them so I don't get the level of attention I would expect

I'm starting to explore the idea of producing those myself... I want to solve a headache

You know, all of that adds up to not trying to make the dang things anyway. Let the realtors go to their own sign companies and have them made. Why would you want to get in the middle of something like that, and deal with the problems, for cheap rider signs?

Just because they're realtors doesn't mean they're COMPLETELY helpless.