Skeptical about going back to a Roland

[D_R_Designs]

Skeptical about going back to a Roland Printer.
One of the first Color printers that we purchased was a Roland PC60, and it went out as fast as it came in. It did a fair job, however, it was not the quality of printing that we were looking to produce. Sold the boat anchor, and went with a Gerber Edge System.
Now we are looking at getting into large format printing, and everytime I think about a Roland I remember the PC60, and take a step backwards. Either VersaCamm, or Sol Jet. Truly want a machine that can print, and cut with the same machine.
Any feedback from current owners would be great.
Thanks for your time.

 

[exsigns]

you cant loose with SolJet. It may be a bit pricey (especially on inks compared to some "new" brands) but it will deliver unexeptional quality & value day after day after day. I would not reccomend going Versa way - nothing wrong with it but if you can afford SolJet it's much better value for money spent.

 

[Gino]

We've gone the route of 'Roland' products for years. Never regretted it. All of their machines did what they were meant to do. The main difference between the PC-60 and the VersaCamm or SolJet is... thermal vs. mild solvent. Big difference in quality and speed, but shorter exterior durablity. We don't have the SolJet, but understand they're great. So if you can afford that, bypass the VersaCamm and go for the bigger and better model. You won't be sorry with either... or.

 

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Roland almost was and should have been sued for the PC60!

That said, it is not characteristic of their machines. The machines (inkjets) do what they claim they do.....they learned their lesson.

 

[andy]

What about a DC4 thermal machine? Everyone and their uncle has gone for a liquid ink system- i'd be tempted to go the other way and get into a niche market- I'm sure the DC can do all kinds of things that liquid would struggle to match.


From what I hear the DC will do everything your edge can do but on a bigger scale.

 

[Rhinoz]

Here's the link to the new roland XC-540 Specs.
http://www.rolanddga.com/products/printcut/xc540/default.asp?t=3

Here's the DC4 Specs:
http://www.summausa.com/product_specs.php?category_id=4&sess_id=da259efd8dabf8f442914012708fc233

Compare them side by side, I say the Roland wins!

 

[andy]

Is still think the DC is better purely in terms of sign making- and I'm not classing banners are signmaking cos I don't really think they are anymore.

There are thousands of Rolands out there so what's you unique selling point gonna be?

I'm no expert on digital printing but I look at the DC4 as a edge type system- and the edge is THE most durable sign printer there is- the original thermal technology is still being used to make money and used Edge machines are still worth money whereas a first or second generation inkjet is a museum piece with zero resale value.

It's entirely down to what you want to do but as I said a printer that exploits a niche market and one that can do what everyone else's liquid machines can't would appeal to me.

 

[WVB]

As soon as I can afford it, the DC4 will be my choice. Talk to others who sell the DC4 not just Summa. Summa wants to sell supplies and make all the money. But there are tons of media you can print on to other then the 3M Summa sells. I only use Oracal in house, and the Summa prints to 651,751,851 etc. just fine so no need in stocking "special" films for the Dc4 only.

 

[SAS]

The DC4 is a nice printer but the cost of printing per SQ. FT. is around 2 bucks where the Roland is around $.75 if you are going to compete with the shop down the street a $1.25 is a lot. I went to the Orlando show to buy a printer but as of now I still have not made the jump. I was looking at the DC4 and the Versacamm 54". Now the price of the SolJet has dropped 5k now that is looking like the better printer. I just received some printed decals from a wholesaler that had a contour cut, this is twice I have ordered the same decals they were printed on a SolJet. The contour cut was off both times, the guy said he was having a problem getting the contour cut to be perfect with the SolJet. Is this a problem with the SolJet? If so I don't want to spend $25k on one.

 

[Gino]

We had quite a few ‘Roland’ products and the contour cutting was always right on the money. The VersaCamm is the first one that I can say varies. Most of the people that have one that I know are experiencing the same problem... 30” & 54”. I’ll have a few jobs print and cut perfect and the next job through, the cut will be off by 1/64 or so. To get around it we now usually bleed everything and for the most part the problem is gone. It is such a small problem, that we haven’t tried to figure it out, but it does happen. As far as the SolJet, I don’t know about those problems.

Why were they almost sued for the PC-60 ?? I never heard anything about that.

 

[javila]

The DC4 is a nice printer but the cost of printing per SQ. FT. is around 2 bucks where the Roland is around $.75 if you are going to compete with the shop down the street a $1.25 is a lot. I went to the Orlando show to buy a printer but as of now I still have not made the jump. I was looking at the DC4 and the Versacamm 54". Now the price of the SolJet has dropped 5k now that is looking like the better printer. I just received some printed decals from a wholesaler that had a contour cut, this is twice I have ordered the same decals they were printed on a SolJet. The contour cut was off both times, the guy said he was having a problem getting the contour cut to be perfect with the SolJet. Is this a problem with the SolJet? If so I don't want to spend $25k on one.

There's fine adjustments to be made for the countour cutting. Right now, If I print and cut without removing the vinyl, I get pretty dead on countour cutting. I haven't touched the adjustments for it since it was installed a few weeks ago. I did notice if you remove the vinyl, laminate, then cut it's off about 1/32" of an inch which is alot for 3"x3" decals, but again I haven't teste the countour adjustments. Which I just might do right now...=D

(545ex btw)

 

[Vital Designs]

I have a Soljet and the contour cut is spot on. It may depend on what software being used. I use Flexi to setup the contour cut and have not tried it out of Corel or Illustrator.

Dave

 

[mark in tx]

Haven't had any problems with the contour cutting on the versacamm. I would like it to be faster for printing though. After switching to bulk inks and getting my whole system professionally profiled, I have not had any real problems.

 

[threeputt]

Is still think the DC is better purely in terms of sign making- and I'm not classing banners are signmaking cos I don't really think they are anymore.

Andy, not quite sure why you say banners aren't signmaking anymore. Care to elaborate?


Back on topic, the Roland SP-540SV seems to do everything it was represented to do pretty darn well, although I admit I haven't anything to compare it to except the Gerber Edge we've owned since about '94. By the way, it's still running churning out small label work for us.

 

[WVB]

Yes the DC4 does cost a little more at 41 cents per ribbon. Its a CMYK printer but you can set it up to run only CMY to produce the black and it is NICE. Back on track it will cost you for CMY $1.21 sqf plus your media. So if using 651 that would be $0.30 + $1.21 giving you $1.51sqf. Keep in mind lamination is optional and using a cal film I would not bother. Rated at 5year outdoor w/o lam and 651 rated at 6yrs outdoor durability. Also you can print perforated window film w/o the added cost of $1-$2 sqf for media alone. Utilizing white ribbon you can perform the same thing. The rip software has a function to print the image in dots on to clear film producing the same effect as window perf. Also no VOCs from the DC4, so no need for ventilation. I don't care if its solvent, mild sovent or eco solvent you should use a ventilation system. Carbon Monoxide does not have a smell either - that doesn't mean its not harmful.

 

[andy]

Re banners;

Banners are such an easy thing for the other trade "competition" to get into. What I mean is that I'm seeing a worrying shift in sideways entry to the sign business. A lot of traditional printing companies have tacked large format print onto their portfolio, I'm also seeing copy shop chains having a serious go at some of the sign makers traditional market- I've also read with interest what has been said about the big chains in the US like WalMart et al nibbling away at the sign makers traditional core market. Add to that a lot of exhibition contractors and academic institutions- a lot of art schools and the like have a full suite of printers which they have decided to use to enter the commercial market.

Personally speaking I haven't made a banner for well over 5 years- in fact I can't remember the last time I made one. Because banners were getting so easy to do the price dropped to meet this "easiness" and I decided I didn't want to have to fight real hard to win such low margin work- you know the drill- customer sends a round robin email to everyone they can find and the cheapest "wins" what is pretty much a worthless project- worthless as the price has been screwed into the basement.

This is the reason why I agree with TVG on the DC4 type of machine. I look at what the DC can do and see all kinds of niche markets for other kinds of sign projects- not banners or super large square footage output but things with spot colours and fancy metallics- the kind of job which would make me stop and have a closer look.

But hey, I'm on a different continent so I really have no idea of what the US market is like on the ground so to speak

 

[D_R_Designs]

Large format

I appreciate all the input from the members. And will definately take waht has been said, and use it. However, Just for clarify why we will not buy a DC4. The DC4 is a large thermal printer, and we have a good number of Vue Thru Window Film done by another supplier. We would like to have this come in house. If you try to use a thermal printer you will get white shadow edges from the inside of the holes, where a Inkjet or solvent printer will be able to fill these spaces. Banners will be something we can do as well.

 

[WVB]

I am not sure what exactly you are stating about the DC4 and the vue thru window film shadows. All you need is clear vinyl and a white ribbon. You create the imaginary holes with the rip software. What the rip does is skip ink for each hole needed creating the same effect that perf. window film does without the special film. Plus you can use any type of laminate to cover the clear vinyl. I have a sample of this and there is no shadows. There is no need for special perf. window film such as needed with a solvent/eco-solvent machine.

 

[D_R_Designs]

Thanks

WoW. Will :U Rock:.
I guess I have never really thought about it in that aspect. Thanks. As for the decision on the Large format. I think that I am going to take a stroll down to one of our local distributors, and see what I can come up with for a logical solution to our needs.
Again I appreciate all the input, and hopefully we will be able to have something nailed down in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks,
Troy

 

[andy]

Will- does that mean that your window film doesn't trap water like the perf stuff?