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Smalts help please
- Thread starter DSC
- Start date
round man
New Member
Smiths cream is a blending agent intended for use with traditional sign painting alkyd enamels nd oil pigments such as fine artists colors in tubes. It more than likley is not compatible with the newer synthetic automotive type enamels and ureathanes. it usually is used about the consistancy of butter at room temperature in a gelatonous state,...one reason we used to call it camel snot in the old outdoor pictoral studios,...I wouldn't try to mix it with 2 part urethanes and or lacquers
Billct2
Active Member
Everything I've read about Smiths is for use with enamels.
You might try asking on Mike Jackson's Letterheads forum.
I wouldn't trust it with Matthews even if it did dry, the amount of expansion/contraction
smalt goes thru could crack a poor combination of glue. Where did you get the purple smalt? Maybe they would have a suggestion.
Man all this smalt talk makes me want to do a nice dimensional sign with smalt. Did you see the last Signcraft where one shop did a patterned backgrounds then smalted it? really looked sweet. I want to try that.
You might try asking on Mike Jackson's Letterheads forum.
I wouldn't trust it with Matthews even if it did dry, the amount of expansion/contraction
smalt goes thru could crack a poor combination of glue. Where did you get the purple smalt? Maybe they would have a suggestion.
Man all this smalt talk makes me want to do a nice dimensional sign with smalt. Did you see the last Signcraft where one shop did a patterned backgrounds then smalted it? really looked sweet. I want to try that.
DSC
New Member
THANK YOU. Not what I wanted to hear, but great info and advice. Now I have to find a customer that wants a sign painted pantone 688c.. !
DSC
New Member
Thansk again Bill .. The place I am getting the smalts did not have an answer either, which is why I looked to signs 101.. Thanks again!
Jackpine
New Member
Ditto! That's the way. I use OneShot + Smith's Cream.
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I was just looking at that and thinking the same thing? How do you think that was done...masked out or just careful application of cream and smalts?
By the way...who's got a good source of Smith's Cream and Smalts?
Billct2
Active Member
I thought the pattern was carved in the surface then smalted.
I use Holdfast Oil not Smiths but this list should have both
http://www.theletterheads.com/supplies/index.htm
I use Holdfast Oil not Smiths but this list should have both
http://www.theletterheads.com/supplies/index.htm
Si Allen
New Member
You might also check out :
http://www.letterheadsignsupply.com/
They have just about everything that Esoteric used to have ... including advice and know-how!
http://www.letterheadsignsupply.com/
They have just about everything that Esoteric used to have ... including advice and know-how!
Keith Jenicek
New Member
Wow. Just discovered this thread with so much disinformation....
We have both Smith's Cream & Smalts available to the sign industry on our website, so you could say we have the experience. Our supplier used to be Rick Glawson of Esoteric Signs as well. However, after his passing, his shop closed, leaving one source with limited supplies. This has been quite an endevor for us, as we are keeping this tradition available and alive!
First, Smith's Cream is not the binding agent for smalts. Smith's Cream, is actually the agent that allows a longer drying time for the enamel...the enamel is the binder. The Cream is colorless and oil based, so it must be mixed with enamel that will match the color of the smalt that is to be applied. Smith's Cream also allows for a thick "bed", applied liberally, for the smalt to lie in and adhere. I have heard of using epoxy for this procedure, but have yet to use this method myself. If you have used this method, please share so we can pass along this knowledge.
Typically we apply the smalts to our dimensional signs. This smalt is "fine" and is roughly 1/8" in size. When routing the sign, all elements that will not be smalted will have a 1/8" raised outline from the smalted area. This allows for the Smith's Cream and enamel mixture, 50/50, to be applied to the background only. As mentioned, anywhere the binder is applied, smalts will adhere to. This includes the returns on all of the raised elements, hense the 1/8" x 1/8" outlines.
Hope this helps all with future projects!!
Best to all,
Keith Jenicek
Artisan Signs
We have both Smith's Cream & Smalts available to the sign industry on our website, so you could say we have the experience. Our supplier used to be Rick Glawson of Esoteric Signs as well. However, after his passing, his shop closed, leaving one source with limited supplies. This has been quite an endevor for us, as we are keeping this tradition available and alive!
First, Smith's Cream is not the binding agent for smalts. Smith's Cream, is actually the agent that allows a longer drying time for the enamel...the enamel is the binder. The Cream is colorless and oil based, so it must be mixed with enamel that will match the color of the smalt that is to be applied. Smith's Cream also allows for a thick "bed", applied liberally, for the smalt to lie in and adhere. I have heard of using epoxy for this procedure, but have yet to use this method myself. If you have used this method, please share so we can pass along this knowledge.
Typically we apply the smalts to our dimensional signs. This smalt is "fine" and is roughly 1/8" in size. When routing the sign, all elements that will not be smalted will have a 1/8" raised outline from the smalted area. This allows for the Smith's Cream and enamel mixture, 50/50, to be applied to the background only. As mentioned, anywhere the binder is applied, smalts will adhere to. This includes the returns on all of the raised elements, hense the 1/8" x 1/8" outlines.
Hope this helps all with future projects!!
Best to all,
Keith Jenicek
Artisan Signs
paul luszcz
New Member
Because smalt is not available in PMS 688C, isn't it likely that the smalt was applied first and then painted? Wouldn't this work with Matthews?
Keith Jenicek
New Member
Could be...however, I don't see any advantage to painting smalts. Some of the reflective qualities would be lost when painted. If you have to match the paint color exactly, I would suggest using HDU and sandblasting. This will leave a pebble effect for the background, similar to smalt. Then paint using a gloss paint according to your client's specifications. Smalts is not cheap and would, in my opinion, be an unecessary expense.
Keith Jenicek
New Member
Sorry, I did not mention that Smith's Cream is now manufactured by 1-Shot, so it is definately compatible with their lettering enamels.