It was not a point of tracing, i could not find a design i liked. By the time i found what i was looking for, people were posting examples, so i posted what i found / liked and someone pointed me in the direct almost instantly. I have spent countless hours tracing, but its 12:30am and with the customer showing up at my door at 7am, im going to take any help i can get. Once again, i appreciate everyones help ! I can now go to bed and salvage 6 hours of sleep.