Strongly not recommend Flexi RIP and that's why

[Myrecs]

We are using latex 335 HP printer almost about 8 months. This printer comes with Flexi12 RIP included. Usually we print a big nested jobs at once and only from tiff files.
First bad experience we had was after couple of days of usage. We had a buggy output of some files (attachment). Of course first of all we made a request to SAI support with description of problem.
Next we had a long conversation that was based mainly on suggestions that it is something wrong with our hardware, because Flexi uses a lot of companies and none of them had such problems.
After a long trials finally SAI admited that problem is with SW and made a first patch.
Seemd like that patch solved a problem with corrupted tiff files, it was something with proceeding files while ripping namely when files were rotated automatically.
Ok now it seemd like everything fine and you may work and be happy) but no such luck)
Time to time Flexi RIP just crashed for some reasons while printing and as a result - interrupted process and again spoiled materials. It was usual crash that was registered in windows events and it happend because of some unhandeled exception.
Next our conversations about this problem held about 6 months. During this period we heard a lot about our imperfect system, in particular Win 10 pro, about corrupted system user profile, about our patch cord and so on...
Finally SAI found problem on their side (something about when printer lost connection with RIP the last one just crashing ). by the way printer pluged directly to PC with patch cord and we even changed it for several times to be sure. Also PC has a high HW specifications so chances that it could be connected with HW are low ) and what they do is making another one patch)) ok. They made it, sent to us, we applied. And if in first case problem was solved then in second case crashes became to appear rearely than before but they still remained continuing to increase our financial losses. This fact didnt bother SAI because no one was in hurry to help!
After our explanations to SAI support they just began to pretend that patches should solve all problems and if we still had ones then we just didnt apply patch and we should do it again and if something happend to report)).
To make it clear - during 6 months we had a lot of crashes and all SAI support did is making of useless steps that didnt solve the problem and after each one they asked to report but result was one - wasted materials and another one report to SAI.
Ok bug fixing is time consuming process but when developers skills are low then bug fixing could be endless and as a result it finishes with something like "yes we had a problem, we suggest a solution but if you cant deal with it then it is problem with you not with SW". And this despite the fact that we have good technical background, of course we did all recomendations SAI told, of course SW should properly catch all exceptions or at least developers should make a bug fix to it to catch, of course good developers should make a rebuilt but not patches in order not to argue if patch was applied or not and lot of more, but it is not about SAI.
We spoiled a lot of material with this RIP and nerves. Problem still persists. May be it's related with just RIP, maybe with a bunch of our printer model and Flexi, but all i know is that when you take money for your SW (and it is not cheap) then you should solve this problems ant not in such manner as you do but at a professional skill which you are applying for.
Now we are looking for some new RIP and for sure won't reverse to Flexi.
upd.: in conversation they told that in v19 all bugs fixed (but no fact that it is). To which i answered that why don't they send me v19. And the reply was perfect - your licence is for v12, so it won't work!!!))) Do you understand the level of greed?)) No one will offset the costs for us because of their bugs but with all this they unable to provide licence for working (as they say) product, that even could be built for us without extra options if they are so afraid that we will get something more than we should. Shame on that company! Never again!

 

[Martin Denton]

Unfortunately, that seems the way with SAI, we had a problem last year with a function in their production manager not working - it was the 'Show Me' function on the plotter which we had used religiously on jobs for many ears using v 8.5. After saying that that it worked just fine on all other machines and I demonstrated on team viewer that it wasn't working on our Mimaki, they then told us they couldn't be expected to test every single make. I pointed out that the Mimaki plotter was one of the main brands of plotter in the sign industry.

They then tried to bullshit me that it had never worked and the button was there for 'future development' which I knew wasn't correct. I pointed out if that was the case then why not hide the button (a simple piece of code to make it not visible) In the end they said they would look into it and get back to me. Never heard another word.

As you pointed out the approach to development from SAI is atrocious especially when you consider the crazy price they charge for their software. I certainly wouldn't purchase it again!

 

[ddarlak]

I have been a Flexi user since 1995, sure there have some issues along the way, but I wouldn't trade this program for anything.

 

[chester215]

+1

I have been a Flexi user since 1995, sure there have some issues along the way, but I wouldn't trade this program for anything.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

They then tried to bullshit me that it had never worked and the button was there for 'future development' which I knew wasn't correct. I pointed out if that was the case then why not hide the button (a simple piece of code to make it not visible) In the end they said they would look into it and get back to me. Never heard another word.

If it was truly there for future development, it should have been on it's own branch for testing. Not on the same branch that gets sent out to customers. Leaving it in, even hidden, could still cause bugs to appear.

As you pointed out the approach to development from SAI is atrocious especially when you consider the crazy price they charge for their software. I certainly wouldn't purchase it again!

Well, keep in mind, all software has the caveat of "sold as is", usually coupled with "without any warranty, including warranty of usability for a particular purpose" (which ironically includes what it was actually designed for).

Now, I'm typically more sympathetic to devs then most on here for a few reasons, but how they handle situations like this makes all the difference. Although to be honest, I'm surprised that they did help at all quite frankly. Usually (in my experience) when buying a bundle hardware/software, typically the software vendor wants the buyer to go through who they purchased from. Couple that with 12 now essentially a legacy version (although it still may "supported", some vendors support x-1, some do not or they charge for support on a per issue basis), I'm actually surprised. Doesn't mean I'm excusing it, but I'm just surprised.

 

[Myrecs]

I have been a Flexi user since 1995, sure there have some issues along the way, but I wouldn't trade this program for anything.

i agree that all SW could have bugs, but it's ok when manufacturer solves problems and meet client's needs. SW is not free as know. It is totally not correct approach. I provided only facts!

 

[S11930]

Everybody has a complaint about software. Does anyone stop and think about what's involved. Not all programs or printers function properly because there is a lot of pieces to making it work. Look at the printers list and see which are supported. Do you think the printer companies are aware of all the programs they must work with? How about the antivirus companies. If you are having an issue turn it off see if it goes away. Microsoft has to do updates you can choose to install them or not. Some people in the sign business are still using windows 95 and get pissed when the program they are using stops working, they expect support to continue forever. Flexi 8.6 has been around 15 years and people complain about no support. Windows 7 has been around 10 years support will be ending. Guess what either go to 10 or don't complain.
Flexi, Adobe, Corel and other programs try and keep up with the changes but its very difficult and expensive. Programs are going subscription because the developers realize that some people buy a program and never upgrade or update. As far as Flexi being expensive I think in 8 months you have made the money back and some change. In the case above yes Flexi might be wrong however look at whats involved from there end. Did you call hp or the printer company. They have drivers and firmwhere.
Flexi has some support and makes an effort, call Corel or adobe all questions will be answered online.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

There is no perfect RIP and if there were it certainly wouldn't be Flexi, imo. I am wrapping up transitioning to Onyx from Flexi and Caldera, and I while I like Onyx the most it definitely has its weak points or is missing a feature or two I would like it to have.

SAI seems to not know how to deal with their issues properly when the end user brings them up.

 

[AF]

Colorgate is very reliable and worth looking into.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Everybody has a complaint about software. Does anyone stop and think about what's involved. Not all programs or printers function properly because there is a lot of pieces to making it work. Look at the printers list and see which are supported. Do you think the printer companies are aware of all the programs they must work with? How about the antivirus companies. If you are having an issue turn it off see if it goes away. Microsoft has to do updates you can choose to install them or not. Some people in the sign business are still using windows 95 and get pissed when the program they are using stops working, they expect support to continue forever. Flexi 8.6 has been around 15 years and people complain about no support. Windows 7 has been around 10 years support will be ending. Guess what either go to 10 or don't complain.
Flexi, Adobe, Corel and other programs try and keep up with the changes but its very difficult and expensive. Programs are going subscription because the developers realize that some people buy a program and never upgrade or update. As far as Flexi being expensive I think in 8 months you have made the money back and some change. In the case above yes Flexi might be wrong however look at whats involved from there end. Did you call hp or the printer company. They have drivers and firmwhere.
Flexi has some support and makes an effort, call Corel or adobe all questions will be answered online.

For the most part with the above, I due tend to agree. As I said, I tend to be more sympathetic to devs having been in the trenches of both testing and coding. Although there are some instances here that I would highlight.

Not all programs or printers function properly because there is a lot of pieces to making it work.

This is one of quite a few reasons why software has the caveat of being distributed "as is" and no warranty given for suitability. Hate to mention that, but no matter how niche and expensive a piece of software is, typically those conditions are in the EULA. Just about any software EULA.

Microsoft has to do updates you can choose to install them or not.

This isn't quite accurate anymore. There are ways to disable it and choose, however, it's not quite as easy (or secure) and keep in mind that even though one may be running Win 10, if the version that you are running is older then 18 months from release it may not be supported. Win 10 is essentially rolling release. Which compounds everything with regard to software.

Programs are going subscription because the developers realize that some people buy a program and never upgrade or update.

There could be that or it could be that it's getting harder and harder to get more features that are going to want people to upgrade and this is a way to get a more consistent cash flow. Think about it, when was there a really game changing feature like "layers". Sure there are some eye candy features that get a few people all hot and bothered over. Some just upgrade because they like having the latest and greatest (which comes with it's own set of cons as well). But has there really been a feature that just wows every demographic of user? These programs are quite old as well and that brings about certain cons as well.

As far as Flexi being expensive I think in 8 months you have made the money back and some change.

This would depend on how well the program performed during said time period.

 

[Myrecs]

look, as i said earlier this SW comes included with HP Latex printer. So this couple should work nicely. Of course i understand thaw we live not in ideal world, and SW is being created by people, but the FIRST and MAIN complaint is that support didnt pay much attention to this problem, but as for me it is a huge problem. It is impossible to work if you expect crashes at every moment. How do you suggest to print image 2-3 meter long if at the end RIP will crash and that's it! Everything from start. And substrate is expensive canvas! They should have done something with this problem as soon as possible, but not to argue about if patch was applied or not (of course we did all recommendations). If they had working new version of RIP then should provide it without any conditions if such sh*t had happend and none of suggested solutions solved problem completely. But "you know, your licence is only for /buggy/ v12" thanks for choosing Flexi)) Client-oriented company? Hm...

 

[Bly]

Doesn't sound very productive.
Why not ditch Flexi and get another RIP and just focus on sales and production?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

All Rips have their issues, you as the business owner needs to decide if it's worth sticking with or reinvesting.

We have been having on Going issues with ONYX across multiple versions, they have been working with us to fix. Now they are coming out to investigate our system to see if there is something else wrong.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

If they had working new version of RIP then should provide it without any conditions if such sh*t had happend and none of suggested solutions solved problem completely. But "you know, your licence is only for /buggy/ v12" thanks for choosing Flexi)) Client-oriented company? Hm...

What a lot of people don't realize (or they just don't like it so they are hoping to get around it), is that all software, every single one, is distributed under "as is" and no warranty at all for suitability of use (and yes, that is even suitability of use for the purpose in which it's marketed towards). This is agreed to by everyone that installed the software. Doesn't matter if you read the terms or not.

Disclaimer of Warranty section can be a particularly interesting read. To be honest, I can understand why that's pro forma to be in EULAs. From a customer's standpoint, I understand why that sucks, but having been involved in several areas of software development, I can understand why that's in there (which goes into why I said I'm more sympathetic to most when it comes to devs on this board).

Now, the kicker (and the reason to stick with a software vendor or not, at least in my mind) is do they go above and beyond despite that clause and help out until something is fixed? And I'm sure that has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. What the C/B of it is etc. Is this a truly outlier issue or more substantial in who it affects.

You go through enough software, you'll find one that you'll love and yet there will be a user or two that can't stand it. And there are a lot of "moving parts", some not as stable as others and it's exceptionally hard to trouble shoot every variable and sometimes no matter what all is done, it just isn't found. Especially if it seems like it's coming from one moving part, but it's actually another part that's the true culprit (driver/firmware from the computer and/or printer for instance). I'm not saying that this is the case here, just that it's a possible scenario.

Software that was once good, now may suck, stick with it or cut your loses?

 

[Dukenukem117]

There is no perfect RIP and if there were it certainly wouldn't be Flexi, imo. I am wrapping up transitioning to Onyx from Flexi and Caldera, and I while I like Onyx the most it definitely has its weak points or is missing a feature or two I would like it to have.

SAI seems to not know how to deal with their issues properly when the end user brings them up.

What do you not like about Caldera? I've been sitting on a trial for awhile now (haven't had time) as I don't much care for Onyx 12.1.

 

[Eduardo Massuda]

We are using latex 335 HP printer almost about 8 months. This printer comes with Flexi12 RIP included. Usually we print a big nested jobs at once and only from tiff files.
First bad experience we had was after couple of days of usage. We had a buggy output of some files (attachment). Of course first of all we made a request to SAI support with description of problem.
Next we had a long conversation that was based mainly on suggestions that it is something wrong with our hardware, because Flexi uses a lot of companies and none of them had such problems.
After a long trials finally SAI admited that problem is with SW and made a first patch.
Seemd like that patch solved a problem with corrupted tiff files, it was something with proceeding files while ripping namely when files were rotated automatically.
Ok now it seemd like everything fine and you may work and be happy) but no such luck)
Time to time Flexi RIP just crashed for some reasons while printing and as a result - interrupted process and again spoiled materials. It was usual crash that was registered in windows events and it happend because of some unhandeled exception.
Next our conversations about this problem held about 6 months. During this period we heard a lot about our imperfect system, in particular Win 10 pro, about corrupted system user profile, about our patch cord and so on...
Finally SAI found problem on their side (something about when printer lost connection with RIP the last one just crashing ). by the way printer pluged directly to PC with patch cord and we even changed it for several times to be sure. Also PC has a high HW specifications so chances that it could be connected with HW are low ) and what they do is making another one patch)) ok. They made it, sent to us, we applied. And if in first case problem was solved then in second case crashes became to appear rearely than before but they still remained continuing to increase our financial losses. This fact didnt bother SAI because no one was in hurry to help!
After our explanations to SAI support they just began to pretend that patches should solve all problems and if we still had ones then we just didnt apply patch and we should do it again and if something happend to report)).
To make it clear - during 6 months we had a lot of crashes and all SAI support did is making of useless steps that didnt solve the problem and after each one they asked to report but result was one - wasted materials and another one report to SAI.
Ok bug fixing is time consuming process but when developers skills are low then bug fixing could be endless and as a result it finishes with something like "yes we had a problem, we suggest a solution but if you cant deal with it then it is problem with you not with SW". And this despite the fact that we have good technical background, of course we did all recomendations SAI told, of course SW should properly catch all exceptions or at least developers should make a bug fix to it to catch, of course good developers should make a rebuilt but not patches in order not to argue if patch was applied or not and lot of more, but it is not about SAI.
We spoiled a lot of material with this RIP and nerves. Problem still persists. May be it's related with just RIP, maybe with a bunch of our printer model and Flexi, but all i know is that when you take money for your SW (and it is not cheap) then you should solve this problems ant not in such manner as you do but at a professional skill which you are applying for.
Now we are looking for some new RIP and for sure won't reverse to Flexi.
upd.: in conversation they told that in v19 all bugs fixed (but no fact that it is). To which i answered that why don't they send me v19. And the reply was perfect - your licence is for v12, so it won't work!!!))) Do you understand the level of greed?)) No one will offset the costs for us because of their bugs but with all this they unable to provide licence for working (as they say) product, that even could be built for us without extra options if they are so afraid that we will get something more than we should. Shame on that company! Never again!

I was the very first 2 1/2 years ago to get the bundle HP335 Print and Cut,
Learned the best decision I made was to return the unit with the cutter, and Got back a HP 335 latex with Summa S2 D160, (SAI Flexi ) Since the bugs was so much with color, show up another color from Ripping and a list of problems, not counting the print cut aliment problem,

I had Onyx 12.05 that drive the Scitex FB550, decided to move from SAI to Onyx to output,
and it is on up to this date.

Since I used the Onyx 12.05 ( 4 years now.) I can say I missed 1 or 2 jobs because I mess up the input info.
Yes SAI Flexi is installed, but don't dare to use it.

Bottom line, it seen a lot money to get Onyx 19 ( current version),
But I would say This: " You may REALLY consider moving up to Onyx, "

Call Onyx and just ask for a 2-4 weeks trial and I'm very sure you will see the difference and accuracy.
* yes you can use all the functions on Flexi, but when outputting Use Onyx, it is a trouble free and no surprises.

As far other Rip software, I have no info and never used any, So i cannot say about Caldera, EFI etc.
on the Black and White I use RTI, Harliquen and also been a great. never had one single problem.

I can Say Onyx 12.05 for me, have been a solid output print and Cut and adding this week Colex cutter.
I'm very sure will be no problem.

Good luck. Ed.

 

[Eduardo Massuda]

All Rips have their issues, you as the business owner needs to decide if it's worth sticking with or reinvesting.

We have been having on Going issues with ONYX across multiple versions, they have been working with us to fix. Now they are coming out to investigate our system to see if there is something else wrong.

ONYX - About print Shift or total image loss or no image......
Learned in some Adobe Products (PDF), the color change and Shift some layers,
So the work around is to bring the PDF to Illustrator or other software that can raster the image, after that no more surprises.

Yes I use Onyx 12.05, been a solid rip, but noticed every time adobe release a update, something come up.....
in the end all will be output in 4 channels, CMYK, 6 channels CMYLlclm, or 8 10 12 channels,

but the real problems is the transparency in the files some sort...... Rater the image make all go away.
Hope this help with your output. Ed.

 

[brycesteiner]

We are using latex 335 HP printer almost about 8 months. This printer comes with Flexi12 RIP included. Usually we print a big nested jobs at once and only from tiff files.
First bad experience we had was after couple of days of usage. We had a buggy output of some files (attachment). Of course first of all we made a request to SAI support with description of problem.
Next we had a long conversation that was based mainly on suggestions that it is something wrong with our hardware, because Flexi uses a lot of companies and none of them had such problems.
After a long trials finally SAI admited that problem is with SW and made a first patch.
Seemd like that patch solved a problem with corrupted tiff files, it was something with proceeding files while ripping namely when files were rotated automatically.
Ok now it seemd like everything fine and you may work and be happy) but no such luck)
Time to time Flexi RIP just crashed for some reasons while printing and as a result - interrupted process and again spoiled materials. It was usual crash that was registered in windows events and it happend because of some unhandeled exception.
Next our conversations about this problem held about 6 months. During this period we heard a lot about our imperfect system, in particular Win 10 pro, about corrupted system user profile, about our patch cord and so on...
Finally SAI found problem on their side (something about when printer lost connection with RIP the last one just crashing ). by the way printer pluged directly to PC with patch cord and we even changed it for several times to be sure. Also PC has a high HW specifications so chances that it could be connected with HW are low ) and what they do is making another one patch)) ok. They made it, sent to us, we applied. And if in first case problem was solved then in second case crashes became to appear rearely than before but they still remained continuing to increase our financial losses. This fact didnt bother SAI because no one was in hurry to help!
After our explanations to SAI support they just began to pretend that patches should solve all problems and if we still had ones then we just didnt apply patch and we should do it again and if something happend to report)).
To make it clear - during 6 months we had a lot of crashes and all SAI support did is making of useless steps that didnt solve the problem and after each one they asked to report but result was one - wasted materials and another one report to SAI.
Ok bug fixing is time consuming process but when developers skills are low then bug fixing could be endless and as a result it finishes with something like "yes we had a problem, we suggest a solution but if you cant deal with it then it is problem with you not with SW". And this despite the fact that we have good technical background, of course we did all recomendations SAI told, of course SW should properly catch all exceptions or at least developers should make a bug fix to it to catch, of course good developers should make a rebuilt but not patches in order not to argue if patch was applied or not and lot of more, but it is not about SAI.
We spoiled a lot of material with this RIP and nerves. Problem still persists. May be it's related with just RIP, maybe with a bunch of our printer model and Flexi, but all i know is that when you take money for your SW (and it is not cheap) then you should solve this problems ant not in such manner as you do but at a professional skill which you are applying for.
Now we are looking for some new RIP and for sure won't reverse to Flexi.
upd.: in conversation they told that in v19 all bugs fixed (but no fact that it is). To which i answered that why don't they send me v19. And the reply was perfect - your licence is for v12, so it won't work!!!))) Do you understand the level of greed?)) No one will offset the costs for us because of their bugs but with all this they unable to provide licence for working (as they say) product, that even could be built for us without extra options if they are so afraid that we will get something more than we should. Shame on that company! Never again!

I have to say that SAI seems to have treated you very well. They went out of their way to write custom patches for your equipment.

I do know there are issues with Flexi but not really anymore than other software. We all hate to have a job not finish due to a disconnect error. If you are having more issues than say a random disconnect than you probably have other issues than software as many of us use it and only rarely do we have a problem.

The first thing I would do is get this in a virtual machine and sandbox the OS using an older version of Windows - preferably 7 so the constant flow of updates is mitigated.

Are the jobs completely ripped before sending or are you allowing jobs to start without being finished on the RIP side? If you have that option turned on go in shut it off. You want to make sure that jobs are completely done before going to the next step.

Disconnects to me are a sign of something going to sleep - especially if it the job started fine but towards the end getting an error, or subpar equipment. Since you have Windows 10 it's very possible that something such as the HDD or the network interface is sleeping or going into hibernation. Have you tried changing computer hardware? I've had enough computers over the years to know that just because everything seems to run fine doesn't mean it is.
Is it possible that you are actually connecting wirelessly even though you have a wired ethernet? It sounds like you are connected directly. It may be a good idea to go through a high quality switch.

We bought a nice gaming PC to run our Flexi RIP. It worked "OK" but it was slow to communicate with our Mutoh. I don't know why. We tried several things. I like to virtualize computers so that upgrades and backups are much easier. We were told by our sales person who sold us the Mutoh that it would not work, or if it did we wouldn't like it.
Performance was subpar on this gaming computer and after a few weeks we installed Virtualbox and put it on a Mac. The RIP actually worked better on the Mac in a virtual machine than it did on native equipment. I can't explain why but it's much more responsive when requesting sizes and inks from the machine than it did before, and prints no slower than before. It's also much easier to back up since it's one file. Maybe it has to do with using a standard intel driver for the network connection. Honestly I don't know. I just know that different equipment can make the difference between being frustrated and not even though we thought it was similar.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

We were told by our sales person who sold us the Mutoh that it would not work, or if it did we wouldn't like it.

I'm actually surprised that they also didn't say that they wouldn't give you support if there was any troubleshooting issue later on. Most vendors don't like it when "stable" software is run through VMs (or if one is beta software as well).

While it may tend to perform better on bare metal, like you, I have had OSs perform better in VMs then they did on bare metal. I do think that some of that (particularly my Vista VM) was due to the stability (or instability) of hardware at the time that you would have that on bare metal, versus even what is available on VMs nowadays.

As far as performance on the gaming rig versus the Mac. One of the key problems with Windows is that the drivers aren't baked into the kernel "You" have the inefficiency there of having this layer on top (driver). Plus is it the best version of the driver for your equipment, does it play nicely with the rest of the components? This is where some of the other OSs have a heads up compared to Windows. Stability of having the driver baked into the kernel.

 

[brycesteiner]

I'm actually surprised that they also didn't say that they wouldn't give you support if there was any troubleshooting issue later on. Most vendors don't like it when "stable" software is run through VMs (or if one is beta software as well).

I don't remember them saying that but I do know that if I've had to call for support for other software and they know it's in a VM then they usually say it's not supported and that's probably the cause of the issue. Very few problems though with running in a VM though.