Subscription Based Software

[billsines]

Adobe is making me really mad with the subscription based software. You sync fonts from Typekit, they sign you out overnight, fonts are gone, go to sign in, but since they make you change your passwords over and over, you can't remember, then you gotta sign up for a password change...all that just to get your fonts back that you like to use. On top of all that you gotta keep paying your monthly fees. The monthly fees are what really kill me. I just really hate a subscription based software model. Just let me buy AI and PS, I'll bring my own fonts and just leave me alone!

 

[Propaganda Ink.]

In the end, it's all about $$$... and getting as much as they can by giving us as little in return as possible in the process. Like what Blender has done for 3D-modeling and animation, meeting and in someways surpassing the old corporate titans in the industry, open-source and free will someday give us the tools that are more widely used and more powerful. You always hear that $$$ is the only motivation. I disagree. I believe that people are motivated more by passion, desire and achievement.

 

[Baz]

I don't sync my fonts with Adobe. What i have in my system is what i use. (i also have a large inventory of fonts not installed but can easily access)
The odd time Adobe will prevent me from saving a file with a certain font because of licensing issues but then i just covert to oultines.

The password thing is from Typekit or Adobe CC? I have never had to re-enter a password for my account.

Personnaly i love the subscription model. It is not expensive and you get the latest versions as soon as they are available.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

In the end, it's all about $$$... and getting as much as they can by giving us as little in return as possible in the process. Like what Blender has done for 3D-modeling and animation, meeting and in someways surpassing the old corporate titans in the industry, open-source and free will someday give us the tools that are more widely used and more powerful. You always hear that $$$ is the only motivation. I disagree. I believe that people are motivated more by passion, desire and achievement.

As someone that uses Linux as my main OS and only use Windows VMs with software that alternatives are not quite there (or there at all), there is a little misnomer that I should mention.

Open source isn't technically about free as in cost (or as Stallman puts it, "free beer"), it's about freedom to do what you want with the software after you get it. Some Linux OSs do cost (typically with service contracts; RHEL for instance, which as far as length of support for each version is like what Windows used to be (10 yrs)), sometimes if you want the pre-compiled binaries that costs (whatever you want to "donate", but the size of the "donation" gets you different levels of support) like with Ardour. If you want that free, you have to compile the source code yourself (which is significantly easier on Linux then it is on Windows and Mac) or use it in a distro (like Ubuntu Studio) that has it already in the ISO of that distro. But do not expect help from the coders of the Ardour project with this method either pre or post compiling.

I should also mention that Windows is offering it's OS on a subscription basis to their Enterprise customers. Rolling it with their Office 365 suite. I think it's only a matter of time that it does this with their "consumer" customers as well.

While I'm not in favor of subscription based software at all (I don't even believe that production computers should be connected to the internet in the first place), I am more about what gets the job done fitting certain parameters (like non SaaS) as well. I doubt open source will ever get to some areas. The best embroidery digitizing software that is open source and not in Alpha (all the rest are Alpha and have been for yrs) was created in the Win 98 days. It still works in todays world since it is portable, but grossly outdated otherwise in functionality. It even works in WINE with about 90% functionality.

I do believe it's going to be a combination of both open source and proprietary. At least based on what I have to do right now. Oddly enough, even AutoDesk Maya as a Linux port.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

It is not expensive and you get the latest versions as soon as they are available.

It depends on what you needed and the cost of that over the long term. I only needed Design Premium. After 7 yrs (buying full price that first year) and upgrading every generation afterward, I was saving money versus the subscription model. So it does depend on what version of CS that you needed.

Getting the latest version isn't always the best. Due to demands of the latest version, it could render your hardware obsolete, meaning you have to upgrade that. Or on the milder end, they could deprecate functionality that you liked, but they no longer thought was needed. Not to mention the instability that upgrading always brings in to the mix.

Like with everything, it's a double edged sword. Have to temper being current with stable at times, at least in my mind.

 

[billsines]

In the end, it's all about $$$... and getting as much as they can by giving us as little in return as possible in the process. Like what Blender has done for 3D-modeling and animation, meeting and in someways surpassing the old corporate titans in the industry, open-source and free will someday give us the tools that are more widely used and more powerful. You always hear that $$$ is the only motivation. I disagree. I believe that people are motivated more by passion, desire and achievement.

Yes, in a sense, I agree. I have a passion and desire to run my business without mindlessly handing over money to everyone that has a subscription for something. I am cheap, that's for sure, but I think that's part of being a good business owner: can you achieve the same level of quality and sales and at the same time decrease needless expense? There are two ways to increase profitability: increase revenue and decrease expense. Now if you can do both, you're winning. It's why I hate subscriptions: the cost NEVER goes away.

I heard someone the other day talking about paying a subscription for MS excel. I couldn't believe it! Google sheets???!!! Free and you can change easily to pdf files? I don't get it... paying for excel forever???

 

[billsines]

Yes, I hear what all of you are saying, great conversation. I think of it this way: say I make a sign for you. You ask me "how much?" I say "$10 per month for as long as you own it. As soon as you're done looking at it, take it down, and stop paying for it, you have to give it back to me." That is stupid.

Oh and yes, by the way, some of my CNC's are still running XP!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I heard someone the other day talking about paying a subscription for MS excel. I couldn't believe it! Google sheets???!!! Free and you can change easily to pdf files? I don't get it... paying for excel forever???

I have concerns with Google as well, but I digress, but I would much rather use LibreOffice if want to be current. I actually still have a working copy of Word 97 and I think the other one is Word 5.0 or something like that. Run both of those in the Win 98 VM. Use CutePDF to make a pdf of that and poof, others can handle it.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Check out Open Office as well. It has all of the MS type programs including a Database program which is nice. It's free and gets updated regularly.

 

[rjssigns]

Since no one will go down this path I will. Someone give me a well thought out answer to what Adobe CC does for you that non-CC versions don't.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Since no one will go down this path I will. Someone give me a well thought out answer to what Adobe CC does for you that non-CC versions don't.

If anything, it would be more along the lines of support for current standards that are in use versus what the legacy programs were doing when they were current. Exporting to different file formats. I've been doing a lot more animation and video work, 4k support isn't there in the legacy versions. Stuff like that.

One thing that I do like about the new Ai, but it doesn't have to do with output directly), is being able to customize the workspace. Choose what tools that you want out in the open and save that workspace. That to me is a huge benefit. Now it doesn't directly effect what you can output versus what you can with CS. It just helps with workflow, at least in my mind anyway.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Check out Open Office as well. It has all of the MS type programs including a Database program which is nice. It's free and gets updated regularly.

As a side note, LibreOffice is a fork of Open Office.

That is the one confusing thing with open source, a lot of forks. Someone may like the core program (or OS), but has certain disagreements with the direction it's heading in or other small concerns and they fork it to something else (I believe a big reason why there are so many distros out there in the Linux world). It has it's pros and cons.

The one thing that I wished would get out of Alpha and atleast in Beta (although how long it's been around, I would prefer stable by now) is the OS ReactOS. It would also need to be 64 bit, but that's a project that I really wish would get past the Alpha stage. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime since it's already been around for going on 20 yrs, but maybe when my son is older.

 

[rjssigns]

If anything, it would be more along the lines of support for current standards that are in use versus what the legacy programs were doing when they were current. Exporting to different file formats. I've been doing a lot more animation and video work, 4k support isn't there in the legacy versions. Stuff like that.

One thing that I do like about the new Ai, but it doesn't have to do with output directly), is being able to customize the workspace. Choose what tools that you want out in the open and save that workspace. That to me is a huge benefit. Now it doesn't directly effect what you can output versus what you can with CS. It just helps with workflow, at least in my mind anyway.

Thanks for the response. I'm with you on support for the new standards, but not seeing what all the hype is about otherwise. I tell my students the best software and computer in the world will not make you a designer.

A former student bought Infinity Designer and really likes it. It cost him less that one months subscription to CC. He also asked me how they could get away with a lot of the same interfaces/hot keys as Ai. I didn't have a good answer. He wasn't complaining as it made the "leap" fairly seamless.

I run CS2, CS5, and CC so I'm not without a frame of reference.

 

[Rick]

Yes, in a sense, I agree. I have a passion and desire to run my business without mindlessly handing over money to everyone that has a subscription for something. I am cheap, that's for sure, but I think that's part of being a good business owner: can you achieve the same level of quality and sales and at the same time decrease needless expense? There are two ways to increase profitability: increase revenue and decrease expense. Now if you can do both, you're winning. It's why I hate subscriptions: the cost NEVER goes away.

I heard someone the other day talking about paying a subscription for MS excel. I couldn't believe it! Google sheets???!!! Free and you can change easily to pdf files? I don't get it... paying for excel forever???

So.... I guess you'll be getting Corel?

While I don't like the subscription model either.... the old way was costly and since they were always updating the software, it never went away either... I still have my Adobe, Corel, HotDoor, Flexi-Sign, AutoCad upgrade boxes since I started working on a computer, they represent way over 10g's in cost, none of them will work on my latest OS, let alone the lack of floppy disc to install some of them, so I would still be upgrading.
I have to work 35 minutes a month to pay for my Adobe, 5 hours a month to pay for all my software... I waste more money on the internet, the toilet or drinking coffee than that 5 hours of work - I make money being efficient and charging enough knowing I have a set cost to stay in business. If you have an issue with 50 bucks a month... you might have bigger problems... I pay 10 times that in software a month and believe they keep me in business. But yeah, I miss the upgrade boxes, I like to have a physical representation of my expenditure...

By the way, I don't like paying my website bill, my cloud cost, my off-site file saving, my inevitable computer upgrades that come every few years, but I charge enough for that too.

I never had issues with signing out overnight, I mostly rely on my physical fonts...

 

[rjssigns]

So.... I guess you'll be getting Corel?

Corel is another option. Joe Diaz certainly does stellar work with it.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Thanks for the response. I'm with you on support for the new standards, but not seeing what all the hype is about otherwise. I tell my students the best software and computer in the world will not make you a designer.

That is true. Some of the same tools that I've used in my design program and my digitizing program have been around since the early aughts and they are still as powerful versus any of the automated stuff out there. Just takes more knowledge is all.

While I don't like the subscription model either.... the old way was costly and since they were always updating the software, it never went away either... I still have my Adobe, Corel, HotDoor, Flexi-Sign, AutoCad upgrade boxes since I started working on a computer, they represent way over 10g's in cost, none of them will work on my latest OS, let alone the lack of floppy disc to install some of them, so I would still be upgrading.

Consider yourself lucky, I have one program that by itself buying outright is $15k and it's a mainstay of my business. Upgrade is $2k a pop for the full version for just 1 gen upgrade.

How much it costs all depends on what you need. After 7 yrs, I would have been saving money on a perpetual license versus the subscription model and that's with paying full price the first iteration and upgrading every single iteration after that, so both methods, I would have been up to date. With regard to Adobe software.

It just all depends on the situation.

However, I'm able to run all my older programs on a newer OS. The joys of VMs. Have to have one stout rig, but it works.

 

[T_K]

go to sign in, but since they make you change your passwords over and over, you can't remember, then you gotta sign up for a password change...all that just to get your fonts back that you like to use.

I've never had to re-enter my password, except when I moved to a new computer

At first, I was annoyed with the subscription model but I'm seeing more sense in it now. Unless you want to keep the same program for 10-20 years, the subscription is cheaper from an upgrade standpoint. I still like to own my software, so the subscription bugs me that once I stop paying I lose all access. But I don't have to keep putting off an upgrade because it's a huge initial investment.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Unless you want to keep the same program for 10-20 years, the subscription is cheaper from an upgrade standpoint.

No it isn't depending on the situation.

When Adobe first had both options available, I priced it out. Using Design Premium (which is the highest CS level that I actually needed for business). First year, I bought it outright at full price. Each subsequent iteration (which they seemed to have been on a yearly release cycle around this time) paid for the upgrade pricing. Still remaining current, so it was the same as going the subscription route. After 7 yrs, I would be paying more for the subscription then if I just kept on with the perpetual license upgrades past the 7 yr mark. Now this does assume somethings, like static pricing for both models over the same period (or atleast within the same ratio if there is an increase), they actually offered both in subsequent yrs etc.

Short term. yes, like with leasing in general, it makes sense. It's does it or does it not make sense in the long term. That's not always the case. It's the "lifetime" cost that I'm more worried about, not the month to month and forget about the other payments.

 

[Rick]

Consider yourself lucky, I have one program that by itself buying outright is $15k and it's a mainstay of my business. Upgrade is $2k a pop for the full version for just 1 gen upgrade.

I wasn't bitching about the costs... the OP is... 50 bucks a month...

Why would I consider myself lucky... if you're making money on your mainstay business software, it's the cost of doing business...

I believe the OP is like many I have read in Letterville Bullboard through the years... some still run Windows 3.1 because they refuse to give greedy software companies a dime more after they spend 2000 bucks... IN 1993! At some point, you're gonna have to pay up buttercup...

And yeah... the subscription method is more expensive...

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I wasn't *****ing about the costs... the OP is... 50 bucks a month...

What triggered my response to you about that was you saying "the old way was costly". The new way to me is far more costly in the long run, then the new way. Unless you only look at one month at a time and don't consider the overall "lifetime" use you have for it.

Why would I consider myself lucky... if you're making money on your mainstay business software, it's the cost of doing business...

You had said that your software investment represents "well over 10gs". Even though what "well over" is a big variable, at least you have a lot of software to show for that investment, when I get well over 10Gs, it's with just the purchase of one software. That's why I said you should consider yourself lucky, you have more software to show for the "same" investment (just in the general terms of "well over 10gs")

I believe the OP is like many I have read in Letterville Bullboard through the years... some still run Windows 3.1 because they refuse to give greedy software companies a dime more after they spend 2000 bucks... IN 1993! At some point, you're gonna have to pay up buttercup...

I can't speak for the OP, that would be speculation on my part.

I can tell you from someone (myself) that used to pay full price for each iteration of Adobe (I hated how they handled upgrade software back in the day, especially when migrating to a new computer), that I have always believed that a company that produced a good product should be compensated for that product (that's why I always contribute financially to open source projects that I use in my day to day business).

To this day, I still believe that. I just don't believe in shelling out money to a company that is going in the direction that I don't like. And I don't have to. There are a lot of different ways around the issue. And thankfully, I don't deal with outside proprietary file formats being sent to me, so I have that flexibility.

Shoot, I'm still able to run older programs on newer hardware (that Windows 98 VM is on a 2 yr old Lenovo Thinkstation with Xeon processor and ECC ram), so the cost of even trying to maintain outdated hardware doesn't even fall into the picture.

All my old software is stored on my server, extracted from the original storage medium, although in that case, it was good that my son's computer still had a floppy drive (but current 16.04 XFCE based OS).

And yeah... the subscription method is more expensive...

And the problem that I have mainly is that that is not how it's be represented by those vendors. There are alot of different ways that one can argue for subscription model that I could actually buy into. But vendors try to focus on the "cheaper" aspect of it and that may not be the case. Again, it depends on the situation, but that may not always be the case. It certainly wasn't in mine.