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Discussion in 'RIP Software & Color Management' started by Tovis, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. I've got the calibration processes nailed down. In doing so I've learned colorburst like the back of my hand. If anybody needs any help let me know if they are trying to implement color management.

    Also, Does anybody use RGB in this industry?

    ~Tovis
     
    Tags:
  2. Jackpine

    Jackpine Major Contributor

    I use RGB when I print bitmaps. CMYK for vectors. This works well for the color quality.
     
  3. so creating a RGB profile widened the Gamut?
     
  4. Rooster

    Rooster Very Active Member

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    I use RGB wherever I can. Maximizes the gamut. You can softproof in photoshop/illy to make sure the image won't do anything funky like start stepping in the graduations.

    We adopted that workflow when we started doing art reproductions. Now whenever I call up an old file it will only look better with a newer machine or more colorful inkset. Since we profile the input side as well, the colors will never go beyond the original, just that much closer to it.

    Place a copy of all the profiles you create into the folder that photoshop/illy uses and then you can have access to them for softproofing. I'm not sure where that would be on a PC since I'm a mac guy.

    Congrats on getting it sorted out. You'll be amazed at the time and money it will save you.
     
  5. sjm

    sjm Member

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    Not if you are printing to a CMYK printer.
     
  6. luggnut

    luggnut Very Active Member

    Wrong RGB will increase the gamut of most large format printers... if you use only cmyk you are limiting the capabilities of your printer some.. <!-- / message --> <!-- controls -->
     
  7. zmatalucci

    zmatalucci Very Active Member

    I design in rgb 99% of the time. I get a much better end result letting the rip dictate the conversion.
     
  8. sjm

    sjm Member

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    That's because you don't have a properly calibrated and profiled system. RGB will not not expand the gamut to a CMYK device.

    The RBG vs CMYK Colour Specturm below shows why


    Offsite Pic Replaced or removed Please Observe Our Photo Posting Rules
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2010
  9. luggnut

    luggnut Very Active Member

    your still wrong.

    if you look the monitor color covers more area than cmyk color. so if you use the cmyk color space (us swop?) then any colors your printer may be able to print outside that cmyk are not available to you. and then if you use adobe rgb1998 the colors available are even greater..

    i'm not saying you will get all those colors but you will get as close as possible with your printer.

    of course your profiles and settings (rendering intents) will effect the outcome but rgb gives you a larger printing gamut. cmyk seems to be more predictable in some cases but rgb will help you get all you cam from the printer.

    when i design (in adobe) i use adobe rgb1998 .. if i use cmyk swop it limits the colors to the cmyk swop colors and my printer is capable of more colors than the SWOP profile has. i still soft proof to see how much things might change sometimes (bright yellows can look greenish)
     
  10. sjm

    sjm Member

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    Design to the printer colour space, i.e. use that profile in PhotoShop. Why would you use a SWOP profile when it's intended for Web Offset Printing and has a narrower gamut? Press ink hues and digital ink hues are very different too and will exhibit what you described.

    Likewise using adobeRGB will create problems as it has a wider colour gamut and colours will get clipped and you will spend countless time colour correcting.
     
  11. Rooster

    Rooster Very Active Member

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    Designing to the output profile ties that file to a specific media and inkset. What about files that come in or go out to other printers and agencies?

    Design in RGB and softproof to the output profile. Let the RIP do the work and maximize the gamut. If your RGB conversions are not accurately reflecting the colors in the artwork then switch to a relative colorimetric rendering intent. A Perceptual intent will maximize the tone curves, but shifts the hues in order to do so.
     
  12. sjm

    sjm Member

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    You sure? Try this create a Yellow in RGB in PhotoShop using AdobeRGB, then assign or convert to SWOP per say. Tell me if you read Cyan in the pure Yellow? Use what ever rendering intent you like.

    We supply our output profile to the more colour savvy clients just as SWOP has a standard for their inks. It just makes life more easy. :rock-n-roll:
     
  13. Interesting

    In our production we've always used CMYK files with Pantone Spots, I guess colorburst optimizes mixes of colors for pantones when it discovers them.

    My degree and such is in photography, in the realm of photography all the prolabs use sRGB colorspace. I'm pretty sure the inks they use for prints they are not Red, Green and Blue. (Some use a light jet with Red, Green and Blue Lasers - I believe the process is called wet silver halide)

    With photography its interesting because they mainly use relative color. If the sky is blue and grass is green - it is okay as long as the photo has contrast and is unbiased.

    With the print industry Pantone 300 can't just be blue - it has to look like pantone 300. Otherwise a client is going to not be happy. This is more Absolute. I've noticed a lot more printers work with CMYK.

    So is the division because in CMYK you can hit colors easiest?

    Whereas in RGB you have more gamut but when things don't print a certian gamut it shifts?

    Could somebody please explain rendering intents. I remember what they said in college but I am not to sure they explained it well enough.
     
  14. Stealth Ryder

    Stealth Ryder Very Active Member

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    Why not simply google it, there is a wealth of information out there...
     
  15. Rooster

    Rooster Very Active Member

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    It's accounting for the white point of the media. Use absolute colorimetric and it adds no cyan. Perceptual, Relative and Saturation Intents will all account for the white point of the media and adjust the color to maintain a neutral gray through to the white point. Absolute expects the white points to be the same and makes no adjustments.
     
  16. I've found that google usually has information, but sometimes its not correct. I did just look it up and got a gist of it.
     
  17. luggnut

    luggnut Very Active Member

    i've never heard of anyone doing that.

    design in a known color space and let the RIP work it out.
    soft proof with the printer profile maybe? but design with it i don't know about that.

    Tovis you can look up rendering intents in the help file or manual with your RIP.. it would probably give a better explaination than i could.

    i use perceptual and relative along with no color correction the most.

    and most places do use sRGB so if you are sending something out to walmart.com or something you best convert to that space. i use adobe rgb1998 in house and have to convert to sRGB when designing for the web and some outsources or i will get a color change. but adobe rgb allows be more color in house. you just must remember a lot of programs don't support anything but sRGB like email proofs ... so convert the proof to sRGB.

    to avoid mistakes and not have to worry about those kinds of things do all designs in sRGB a little more limited space than adobe RGB 1998 but still works.... since most programs by default assume sRGB (including adobe's) you get consistent color without to much color management.
     
  18. creating a profile for RGB

    Did you create a printer profile for RGB? Or, do you have a standard printer that comes with profiles that you don't really have to make.

    Also, what rip do you use?

    ~Tovis
     
  19. MachServTech

    MachServTech Very Active Member

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    Relative Colormetric takes into account if your paper or vinyl has a yellow cast Absolute does not.

    Relative Colorimetric is the appropriate colorimetric intent for most of the sign industry.
     
  20. sjm

    sjm Member

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    :thumb:

    For both vector and image. I'll address the other arguments and explain why I recommend RC for both vector and image data too.
     
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