Thank you Dan Antonelli

[weaselboogie]

If you are a graphic designer or a sign shop, is it right to represent your companies image through the artistic interpretation and expression of another designer or artist?

In some strange way this seems wrong to me, like a lie or deception . . .

+1 !

 

[Gino]

No disrespect to Dan, I love his work as it is always amazing, and I speak of his talents often in graphic design conversations.

Still, I must pose this question . . .
If you are a graphic designer or a sign shop, is it right to represent your companies image through the artistic interpretation and expression of another designer or artist?

In some strange way this seems wrong to me, like a lie or deception . . .

+1 !

Up front, I was kinda thinking along the same lines, but a highly paid professional knows when to call in the 'Big Guns'.

One of the most commonly used threads is about designing for one's self. We are usually are own biggest problems. Never know when to quit, change up or just push on. We literally get in our own way sometimes. When we lack the know-how, we must look for someone/something better to do our job and move on.

Here's a guy, when establishing an image, has elected to give it to someone better than himself or his crew. He chose one of the country's leading specialists in this field.

While I too, see a conflict here.... I do see him delegating important decisions to those that are in the 'Know'. Also, in this fashion, he and his crew can focus on their customers and serve them better while someone is hard at work doing their in-house imaging.

We got another truck about two weeks ago and none of us can figure out what to put on it. We're too busy to work on it and when we take 15 or 20 minutes to brainstorm... all we get are light showers. It'll take some time, but we'll eventually get it. Should we engage in someone like Dan or Joe Diaz or some of the other fine designers on here ?? Probably, but I'm too cheap and will wait until our crew figures it out. I don't mind driving around in a blank van. It's rather nice to go places and not be caught somewhere you shouldn't be............ ​

 

[Tim Aucoin]

No disrespect to Dan, I love his work as it is always amazing, and I speak of his talents often in graphic design conversations.

Still, I must pose this question . . .
If you are a graphic designer or a sign shop, is it right to represent your companies image through the artistic interpretation and expression of another designer or artist?

In some strange way this seems wrong to me, like a lie or deception . . .

I couldn't disagree more! In my opinion, there is a HUGE difference between "design" and "re-branding". Sure, to re-brand you need to come up with a new design, but there is a whole lot more that goes into the re-branding thought process than simple design. When a company decides to re-brand, it is in their best interest to "step away" from the process and hand it off to someone like Dan to look at it from a totally different perspective. The company itself is too close to it to have a critical enough opinion on what they need.

I say this because we are experiencing this first hand even as I type this. Our franchise (Kwik Kopy Design & Print Centre) decided around 2 years ago that it was time to re-brand, as our current brand is hurting most franchisees rather than helping them. The name "Kwik Kopy" doesn't work any longer with the services we offer. Our corporate office's first idea for the re-branding was to open the designing process up to each and every franchisee's design department. Now, there are 72 centres across Canada, and there are a lot of very talented designers in this group. There were around 25 "decent" attempts submitted to the re-branding committee (which I am a member of) and it was unanimous that non of the submitted designs suited what we were attempting to do with the re-branding process. So, it was back to square one!

It was then that I contacted Dan and asked him about pricing to help us with the re-branding process. I came to Dan on my own, as our Committee was at a stand still at the time. Dan came back to me with what I thought was a very, very fair proposal and I presented that proposal to the re-branding Committee. They basically ignored what I brought them and decided to go the route of (I'm not sure of the exact name) that on-line thing called 99 designs or something along that line. So, here's a Design & Print franchise looking to a third party for help re-branding and designing a new logo and look! Several months later the submissions were narrowed down to 6 designs for the Committee to choose from and in my opinion they were not much better than what the franchisees' designers had submitted in the first place. You see, these people that participated in the design process on the web were not actually re-branding specialists like Dan's company, rather they were everyday designers trying to win a contract!

So, the Committee "settled" on what we felt was the best of the bunch submitted and currently it is in the legal process of due diligence with the Master Franchise in Houston. They say it could take a couple years to finish the process. By then, the new brand will be outdated in my opinion.

I know for a fact that had we hired Dan in the first place like I recommended, we would definitely have a better looking, much more professional brand to represent the 72 centres in Canada. Instead, they have "settled" on something that in the long run ended up costing more than Dan's original proposal. It frustrates the crap out of me, but the point I'm trying to make here is that re-branding initiatives should be left to the re-branding professionals, not "designers".

 

[ddarlak]

In owning your own business you have to decide what you can and can't do, what you do and what you sub out. Recognizing this is what makes you successful in business.

 

[Typestries]

In response to those that question a designer hiring another designer to handle branding.......I've been at this since 1994. It's taken me too long to realize that hiring folks that are better at doing something you may be able to do yourself is a primary factor in long term business success. This goes for employees and subs.

In particular it took a lot of digging deep personally to let another designer do our rebrand and our forthcoming sites. But the reality is that's not the best use of our abilities or time to run it in house, and once again, hiring someone with higher abilities than oneself is something I have learned to embrace.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

In owning your own business you have to decide what you can and can't do, what you do and what you sub out. Recognizing this is what makes you successful in business.

In response to those that question a designer hiring another designer to handle branding.......I've been at this since 1994. It's taken me too long to realize that hiring folks that are better at doing something you may be able to do yourself is a primary factor in long term business success. This goes for employees and subs.

In particular it took a lot of digging deep personally to let another designer do our rebrand and our forthcoming sites. But the reality is that's not the best use of our abilities or time to run it in house, and once again, hiring someone with higher abilities than oneself is something I have learned to embrace.

 

[cdiesel]

Rick and the others are right.

Also, there is often a bit of a difference between designing a sign, logo, wrap, or what have you, and branding.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

It's easy for me to say this, but the smartest business owners I have met are those who seek the advice of experts outside their comfort zone. The ones who think they're experts at everything, are typically their own worst enemy. A lot is tied up in ego, and I think I may have posted my blog post once before on building a company of giants (here it is again in case you hadn't read it before http://graphicd-signs.blogspot.com/2011/04/how-your-ego-may-be-holding-back-your.html ). But the points I make in it I truly believe.

We've certainly done a lot of sign company logos, but I don't consider it to be false advertising to brand a sign company. Some are not design-centric, but does that mean they themselves should promote an amateurish brand? Some are doing great production work, going after larger accounts, and they need to look the part if they're going to go after those lines of business.

A good brand sets the level of expectation for every subsequent interaction with that company. What expectation do you want your brand to set with potential clients?

If one truly believes their brand is their company's most valuable asset, you wouldn't be going to 99 Designs, and getting a $100 worth of crap. The story above from Tim is so typical, yet ironic in so many ways. People's buying habits are first influenced by brand perception. If you want to look homegrown, don't expect clients to pay non-homegrown prices. If more shops understood that, they'd make so much more money themselves. Seems to painfully obvious to me, sometimes I just scratch my head.

The frequent refrain 'I can't get that money here' or 'I can't get that type of work here' is just a crutch for refusing to look in the mirror. I can tell you why you can't the money. Because you don't look like you should get the money. Simple as that.

There was a point in my career when I was slugging it out for $350-400 for a set of truck doors, like every one else. I just decided it wasn't for me, took a hard look at where I wanted to go, and presented a different image, a different approach, and said design is what I want to sell, not vinyl by the pound. It's not rocket science.

 

[SD&F]

When you start to believe that no one can do ANYTHING any better than you can......you are out of business. We are not all experts in EVERY field of business. We may be great, but we can always do better.

 

[Rick]

There is sign shop design, there is logo design... Most sign shops are "replicators"... just outputting what is given them and occasionally cleaning up files, doing a layout and basic design. I think in order to compete or stand out, they need a well designed logo. Most already invested thousands to hundreds of thousands in equipment, why cheap out on a well designed identity when branding/marketing and design is not your specialty?

Not all sign shops are equal... I don't believe in generalizing that every sign shop needs my services. In Replicators case, he may not need a logo designed by Dan, Joe or myself. But I also believe that quite a few sign shops do ramshackle logo and sign design that they have no business doing... C'mon now, we have many many cases of people coming on here attempting logo and sign design with disastrous results. But they can still cut vinyl and hit the "print" button and that may be all they need to do. So why not do it with a well designed logo hanging on your building or slapped on the side of their truck.

I see this all the time when talking to prospective sign shop clients. Sign shops can build many types of signs, and even design decent signs and logos, but most concentrate on the building and installation and leave the design stuff to someone better... I think that is good business.

 

[Sticky Signs]

Wow, I can't believe this thread has been brought back to life.

To Replicator and anyone else who might share his view - I completely understand your statement however I gotta go with the same thing everyone else is saying. Know your strengths and weaknesses and play on them. In my case, I'm not a designer, nor do I claim to be. My company however offers design services. As a "1 man show", I will sub out the design work to one of the many designers I know. I'm familiar with there work and I can determine who's style will work best for my clients needs. Now with that being said, the fact of the matter is that I do very little design work as my clients don't often request it. I'd say 98% of the work I do comes to me ready to print.

So is this deception? Well, I guess it depends on what side of the fence you're on. All I know is that from where I stand, I've been able to grow my business by concentrating on what I'M good at and subbing out work where I see fit. BTW, I also tell my clients straight up what my in-house capabilities are and I let them know when I'm going to sub something out. And, I let them know that I hand pick my subs because I know they can deliver products/services that meet my standards of quality.


Btw, Dan, I owe an apology. You've created an awesome logo for me and I still have yet to start using it. Just to busy to work on my own stuff. Don't worry, it's on my list.

 

[Replicator]

ALL points, especially those by Dan and Rick well taken, and you have opened my eyes to a different way of interpreting my ideas about self image design.

Thank you for the points you've raised . . . Education is EVERYTHING !!!!!

 

[Dan Antonelli]

ALL points, especially those by Dan and Rick well taken, and you have opened my eyes to a different way of interpreting my ideas about self image design.

Thank you for the points you've raised . . . Education is EVERYTHING !!!!!

Hopefully my responses didn't seem specifically targeting you. You have always been aces in my book, and I've always appreciated the props you have given my, my books, etc. So thank you as well pal----

 

[Replicator]

Great blog article Dan . . . I appreciate and thank you for those insights !!!!!