The gall of some customers.

[thinksigns]

So I get a letter from a long time customer. Its a logistics company and I do signs for a few of their locations across the country. Five or six years ago they were a large customer. The amount they order per year has gone down since the economy crashed.

The letter starts off saying they process over 10 million invoices per year so they need to move to a more efficient and environmentally friendly system. If you email an invoice but leave off the PO, they will deduct $10 as a penalty. If you snail mail a paper invoice, they deduct $15 and if you submit an invoice more than 7 days after delivery they will deduct $25
In addition, they will be applying a $100 annual maintenance fee to each vendor. Oh, they also pay at 60 days.

The penalties are no problem since I already follow those procedures. The fact that they want me to pay $100 a year for the right to sell them signs really grinds my gears. Has anyone else dealt with this type of thing?

 

[Billct2]

Not exactly... But I'd say it's time for a price increase for their orders

 

[Charlie J]

Send them a letter back saying that you're going to charge them an annual customer maintenance fee of $200.

 

[Gino]

We're starting to see more and more of these conditions, also. Had one recently which we told them under no circumstances are we gonna bow down to these outrageous terms. Said I won't do it.

Got an e-mail just a few days later for a job from them and they said they would pay in advance to get around paying all of our terms. They paid upfront and apologized for giving us the grief.


Found out..... if you stand your ground, you can get what you want, if you can back it up.



As for the $100 charge for doing business with them.... I'd tell them, that's alright, we're sending out a quarterly statement for all customers who do not pay within our terms, so it should work itself out in the wash.............

 

[CanuckSigns]

Send them a letter back saying that you're going to charge them an annual customer maintenance fee of $200.

seriously do this, I would love to know what they say!!

 

[Mosh]

I do stuff for Cargill and the pay Net 90 days, you can deduct 15% if you want it in 45 day...Price has gone up for them now.

 

[Gino]

No.

It's simple and easy to override your terms by their writing in theirs. If you proceed with this order, their terms now supersede yours and their terms will be the new terms and conditions of YOUR contract. However, if you bring it to their attention that you will not sign, date or recognize their PO, and they sign and date yours, yours will be the one determining the contract.

If you have a certain way of doing business and they/someone wants to rewrite the contract.... whatever gets signed off on last is what takes effect immediately. It will then become the NEW norm of doing business with said company.



If we agreed on a contract for $20,000. with 4 payments of $5,000 each time and when the whole job was complete they owed you the 3rd and 4th quarters. In other words, both parties agreed to $20,000 with $5,000 up front, 2nd $5,000 when finished, 3rd $5,000 when installed and the final $5,000 10 days after installation, but on the 3rd installment someone put in the memo.... 'Paid in Full' real small. That constitutes the NEW final payment if you deposited it. By accepting/starting a job, you are changing conditions on your contract. You just f*cked yourself out of $5,000 by depositing their 3rd payment.

 

[Happyprinter]

We are also seeing more of this with our bigger corporate accounts. Of course, like everything else all depends on the volume of business that they do with you.
Can you break up their yearly fee into orders that they place with you? We just increase our customers prices to cover any costs that we incur from them. ie paying
us by credit card for example. All of our quoted prices are 3% higher to that customer.

 

[Charlie J]

No.

If we agreed on a contract for $20,000. with 4 payments of $5,000 each time and when the whole job was complete they owed you the 3rd and 4th quarters. In other words, both parties agreed to $20,000 with $5,000 up front, 2nd $5,000 when finished, 3rd $5,000 when installed and the final $5,000 10 days after installation, but on the 3rd installment someone put in the memo.... 'Paid in Full' real small. That constitutes the NEW final payment if you deposited it. By accepting/starting a job, you are changing conditions on your contract. You just f*cked yourself out of $5,000 by depositing their 3rd payment.

I believe someone could get their *** kicked for trying to do business like that.

 

[Gino]

I believe someone could get their *** kicked for trying to do business like that.

Nope, not at all. I never knew it, but it was a normal way of doing business by mostly brokers and contractors. It was an evil way of doing it, but hey, welcome to the club was their slogan. You then had a choice. Forget it, don't do business with them or just move on. At the time, these people represented quite a large portion of work in this town. It wasn't just one company, it was many of them and they were all in cahoots together.

This ploy was played on me about 20 or so years ago. I got f*cked out of $6,900.00 The whole job was almost $30,000. So it was mostly profit, I lost, so it's not like I didn't get anything. The guy is still in business and he pays up front, now. In fact, I just did a job for him about 6 months ago. The job was worth maybe $225. or $250, but I charged him close to $600 and he paid, but my terms are now met upon delivery. He also knows I will tear his throat out if he ever pulls it on me again. When I saw him this last time he asked how things are going and I said other than the rotten scum here in downtown Reading like yourself, not bad. We laughed and he gave me my check. He also makes the check payable to my name. I make sure the money is there immediately.

 

[Charlie J]

Yeah I would stab someone.

 

[Techman]

You just f*cked yourself out of $5,000 by depositing their 3rd payment.

Nope.. Certain conditions must be met. Simply sending a check PIF in tiny writing will not work.

The PIFC must be conspicious in plain view..
There's a legal maxim saying "the law favors a compromise," and that thought is the pedestal of a PIFC. But the statute quoted above begins by requiring both good faith and a bona fide dispute before the check is sent. It must be emphasized that a PIFC can only be used where both of those two factual things coalesce. A PIFC is not a blanket permission for misuse of the law. No matter how bad your current financial situation, you can't just pay all your creditors half, and have a good month. If the person sending the PIFC is the bad guy, the debt will still be owed and a PIFC offers no relief.

 

[Gino]

Nope.. Certain conditions must be met. Simply sending a check PIF in tiny writing will not work.

The PIFC must be conspicious in plain view..
There's a legal maxim saying "the law favors a compromise," and that thought is the pedestal of a PIFC. But the statute quoted above begins by requiring both good faith and a bona fide dispute before the check is sent. It must be emphasized that a PIFC can only be used where both of those two factual things coalesce. A PIFC is not a blanket permission for misuse of the law. No matter how bad your current financial situation, you can't just pay all your creditors half, and have a good month. If the person sending the PIFC is the bad guy, the debt will still be owed and a PIFC offers no relief.

Don't know where you get your facts, but we went to a law firm, specializing in this kinda law, which all said they didn't think it was gonna fly, but tried anyway on contingency. It was thrown out because in the memo, as mentioned, it said 'paid in full'. No one can prove malice, but it was deposited on our end without knowing not to... and when we tried to get our final payment was told this. Took a few months til we were told to forget about it, but never take a check like that again. Be careful and inspect all of your checks for things of this nature.

I recently told this story to someone and they told me of a similar happening to someone they knew. None of the same people involved at all. Totally different people and circumstances, but the memo had the same kinda memo in it.

 

[Eric H]

I have no idea how that works. Maybe someone should try that with a car payment or mortgage and see how that works out for them.

 

[Techman]

laws are interpreted different every where even within the same state. What goes on in PA will not fly in other places.

An example of another law concerning a stop payment on a check.

Stop payment can only be used when there is a failure of one party to deliver on an agreement. For example. You pay 100 bux to get the drains cleaned. The cleaner never showed up and did not deliver anything of value. One can use a stop payment in this case.

However if something of value is delivered then a stop payment cannto be used. In fact the penalties are sever. Two times the face value plus expenses to collect...

 

[ddarlak]

Yeah I would stab someone.

love it!

 

[heyskull]

This thread is scary but this is happening a lot now.
Only thing is to counteract with either an additional 5-10% on the job or come up with outrageous terms also.

I haven't come across anyone wanting an annual fee for their business.
The only thing is if I had to pay a business an annual fee I would want all of their business.

SC

 

[AF]

They are basically demanding a bribe. Doesn't sound like it would hold up in court, and may have criminal implications for both parties.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

There is only so much that one can "demand" in a contract and still have that contract hold up. It will vary within each jurisdiction just how much one can demand. This is most often seen with "usury" contracts (interest rates on loans etc), but it does apply to other contracts as well.

You have to remember, just based on the mere fact that it is in a "contract" doesn't mean that in of itself, it's legally binding. You have to follow the rules of your local jurisdiction as well. Sometimes it can need an additional signature, sometimes it depends on very explicit language that has to be there and if it's not, it can be voided.

Now rather or not you can and/or able to fight the contract that is something else.

 

[AF]

Contract law goes way back to common law from England. Legal purpose is a requirement of a valid contract. This "new" tactic has most likely been tried many times before and was shot down in the courts. That is why nobody has encountered it recently. It will be interesting to see how long this lasts.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Contract law goes way back to common law from England. Legal purpose is a requirement of a valid contract.

Absolutely on both counts. However, legal purpose is necessary, but not sufficient. Each jurisdiction has added on various little quirks to certain contracts (depending on what you are talking about) that is different from one another that you have to be careful. What might be a binding contract in New York, may not be binding in Alabama, depending on what you are talking about.