The next generation of adobe users now work among us

[Bobby H]

Regarding the original first post, the designer who chewed out JBurton should have known better about the Pantone thing a couple of years ago when the first warnings were issued. I made backups of the Pantone ACB files from Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. Many other Adobe software users did the same thing.

When a new version of Illustrator, Photoshop or InDesign is installed it won't include those Pantone spot color books. But backups of those ACB files can be pasted into the appropriate folder locations. The ACB files will work properly, but they won't have any newer colors Pantone has released.

For about a year it was possible for users to install a previous version of Illustrator, Photoshop or InDesign and then make copies of those Pantone ACB files to copy into the new versions. Those old versions are no longer available in the Creative Cloud app. On the other hand various web sites have those ACB files posted here and there. Just be careful to avoid any malware while hunting for them.

One interesting note: while Pantone made Adobe remove its spot color libraries from their applications Pantone hasn't applied the same rules to CorelDRAW or Affinity Designer. Even more interesting, I can create artwork in CorelDRAW using Pantone spot colors not carried in Adobe's outdated color books, but when I export the artwork in Illustrator format and open it in Illustrator the spot colors are still preserved.

I've said it before in previous threads on this topic: Pantone hasn't been doing themselves any favors at all with this stunt involving Adobe. Their Connect software was buggy garbage when first released and it's seriously overpriced. $180 per year just for some color book files. And you have to spend around $200 more for actual printed spot color swatch books. If anything this crap will just encourage a lot of people to keep using old swatch books and old digital swatch libraries for years to come.

Pantone buys Canva, and only licences it to their new aquisition, and their fledgling rip software

Joking aside, Pantone is owned by X-Rite which was bought by Veralto Corporation in 2023. At least Veralto isn't a friggin' private equity company. Canva and the companies bought in its name (such as Serif recently) are owned by a private equity group. Under the current situation if any company bought the other I might expect Canva's owners to buy Veralto's properties.

 

[gnubler]

And you have to spend around $200 more for actual printed spot color swatch books. If anything this crap will just encourage a lot of people to keep using old swatch books and old digital swatch libraries for years to come.

I finally upgraded my 20 year old swatch books, it was time. Found brand new in box 2021 color books on eBay for a substantial savings. Good enough for me, and Pantone gets nothing.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

One interesting note: while Pantone made Adobe remove its spot color libraries from their applications Pantone hasn't applied the same rules to CorelDRAW or Affinity Designer.

Probably thought that since Adobe license out some of their 3rd party "technologies" (although I guess the Dolby fiasco taught them nothing) and given that they have a far greater share of this particular market and they make good use of SaaS, probably thought it would be a good pay day. Figured given market share and everything else around Corel and Serif, probably figured couldn't do the same thing and those that go to those particular products are already more concerned about "budget friendly" as it is.

 

[MNT_Printhead]

Adept means "good at doing something." Adapt means "to change for a new situation."
The More you know - star swoosh

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Adept means "good at doing something." Adapt means "to change for a new situation."
The More you know - star swoosh

College educated aggie, what do you expect.

 

[Bobby H]

Probably thought that since Adobe license out some of their 3rd party "technologies" (although I guess the Dolby fiasco taught them nothing) and given that they have a far greater share of this particular market and they make good use of SaaS, probably thought it would be a good pay day.

I think which ever "decider guy" at Pantone dreamed up this business strategy must have been spending a few nights sleeping in air-tight plastic cleaners bags before fever-dreaming up that ploy.

Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator are all very dominant in the specific graphics industry categories that make the most use of Pantone spot colors. The act of removing Pantone spot colors from stock installations of those applications is a great way of reducing Pantone's marketing visibility to a great deal of people who do print-related graphics work for a living.

If anything, Adobe could have demanded Pantone pay Adobe good money to bundle their palettes into Adobe's software. Let's face it, the palettes being there in the menus is like a subtle form of advertising.

Pantone's spokespeople whine that Adobe's palettes of Pantone colors were out of date. If it was up to Adobe's staffers to make the damned color books it's no wonder. What the hell was stopping Pantone from creating some proper ACB files for Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign? It's arguably easier to create custom palettes in Adobe's applications than it is in rival applications. It is most certainly easier to find the damned palette files for Adobe's applications.

On that point, that might explain why Pantone is only targeting Adobe's software. They apparently don't know how to create custom swatch books for CorelDRAW, Affinity Designer or other applications. Corel and Serif both do not do anything to make it easy. I can find various program folders for CorelDRAW, but can't find locations where the stock color palettes are stored. The application data for Affinity Designer 2 is even harder to find.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Why I like programs that use the .gpl palettes. It's very easy to create those palettes (although it can be tedious if we are talking about large palettes without some type of automation). There was actually conversion from palettes of other programs to the .gpl format, I think there was in fact a repo for some of the pantone colors as well.

Thankfully, I never had to deal with the Pantone issue as far as matching goes. With what I did, most people didn't expect there to be matching available (and to be honest there was only one company that hocked that feature, that may have changed now).

 

[Bobby H]

GPL palettes are a GIMP and Inkscape thing. I suppose various fanboys can craft their own custom palettes of Pantone spot colors. But it's going to be their own judgments (or guesses) on RGB-CMYK-L*a*b values with how those palettes work rather than getting the legit values from people at Pantone.

It might be nice to be in a daily work flow arrangement where Pantone spot color matching is not a consideration. Unfortunately most sign shops are required to some degree to match Pantone spot colors due to client demands. Those demands get much more strict when dealing with bigger companies with greater national or international reach. Pantone spot colors are an extremely common feature of corporate branding.

To compound the situation worse, Adobe and Pantone have their current embargo arrangement against each other. Nevertheless, big companies spec out their official colors using Pantone spot color standards (rather than any rival color library such as Toyo or Trumatch). And then these same companies build out their corporate branding assets using those Pantone spot colors but also features in Adobe Illustrator that don't export so well to rival applications. Effects involving gradients and transparency (or combinations of both) do NOT export well outside of Illustrator. Illustrator has certain transparency modes that can't be duplicated in CorelDRAW or Affinity Designer. That doesn't even bring in issues like gradients on line strokes, freeform gradients, etc.

If I'm going to create a logo for someone I'm going to want that artwork to be as "portable" as possible. I'm going to want it to render accurately in a lot of different software environments. Other people creating "logos" don't think like that. They just bake in whatever feature they like into the artwork regardless of what problems in might cause in production. These younger people haven't had to put up with the hang-ups I've had to endure -or at least they're so young they haven't run into those problems YET.

 

[jtiii]

I concur; The next generation of Adobe users are utilizing the software to showcase their creativity across different mediums. This includes graphic design, video editing, photography, and even animation. Adobe's versatile tools offer a platform for young creators to experiment and bring their artistic visions to life in innovative ways.

Are you trolling

 

[ADASignLady]

Whether you use pantone, cymk or RAL, if you are making directional, informational or identification signs, you'll also need the LRVs (Light Reflectance Values) of the colors.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

GPL palettes are a GIMP and Inkscape thing. I suppose various fanboys can craft their own custom palettes of Pantone spot colors. But it's going to be their own judgments (or guesses) on RGB-CMYK-L*a*b values with how those palettes work rather than getting the legit values from people at Pantone.

It started out as a GIMP thing, but it has merged into other software as well (I don't use GIMP nor Inkscape (I can't stand the visuals of GTK), but I do use that palette format). While it does enable everyone to create their own palettes, there are some palettes that are professionally created using that format (why I tend to like programs with open plugin APIs, while the program may not have what I need, I can usually add it in there fairly quickly depending on what language is used, typically python). Not many, but they are out there. I think, oddly enough, people conflate quality of the product depending on if it's a company doing it or an individual doing it, but I digress.

It might be nice to be in a daily work flow arrangement where Pantone spot color matching is not a consideration. Unfortunately most sign shops are required to some degree to match Pantone spot colors due to client demands. Those demands get much more strict when dealing with bigger companies with greater national or international reach. Pantone spot colors are an extremely common feature of corporate branding.

I have to wonder just how much is that a consideration though, I have dealt with global companies, unfortunately with NDAs, that that isn't quite as much a consideration. Of course, that could have been because of what I used to do wasn't thought of as much of a priority or even a thing, quite possible.

If I'm going to create a logo for someone I'm going to want that artwork to be as "portable" as possible. I'm going to want it to render accurately in a lot of different software environments. Other people creating "logos" don't think like that. They just bake in whatever feature they like into the artwork regardless of what problems in might cause in production. These younger people haven't had to put up with the hang-ups I've had to endure -or at least they're so young they haven't run into those problems YET.

I can totally understand that, and I do that as well, but also for a selfish reason. It makes it easier for me to go to another software package if the need arises.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I think which ever "decider guy" at Pantone dreamed up this business strategy must have been spending a few nights sleeping in air-tight plastic cleaners bags before fever-dreaming up that ploy.

Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator are all very dominant in the specific graphics industry categories that make the most use of Pantone spot colors. The act of removing Pantone spot colors from stock installations of those applications is a great way of reducing Pantone's marketing visibility to a great deal of people who do print-related graphics work for a living.

If anything, Adobe could have demanded Pantone pay Adobe good money to bundle their palettes into Adobe's software. Let's face it, the palettes being there in the menus is like a subtle form of advertising.

Pantone's spokespeople whine that Adobe's palettes of Pantone colors were out of date. If it was up to Adobe's staffers to make the damned color books it's no wonder. What the hell was stopping Pantone from creating some proper ACB files for Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign? It's arguably easier to create custom palettes in Adobe's applications than it is in rival applications. It is most certainly easier to find the damned palette files for Adobe's applications.

On that point, that might explain why Pantone is only targeting Adobe's software. They apparently don't know how to create custom swatch books for CorelDRAW, Affinity Designer or other applications. Corel and Serif both do not do anything to make it easy. I can find various program folders for CorelDRAW, but can't find locations where the stock color palettes are stored. The application data for Affinity Designer 2 is even harder to find.

It's always about the short term gain, most companies bonus structure is set up this way. Make all you can now because next year they are going to raise the bar and you might not get anything. It's a silly setup but in todays world, everything is about today and the top brass will milk one and simply move on to the next when the gravy stops flowing.

 

[Bobby H]

I have to wonder just how much is that a consideration though, I have dealt with global companies, unfortunately with NDAs, that that isn't quite as much a consideration. Of course, that could have been because of what I used to do wasn't thought of as much of a priority or even a thing, quite possible.

Matching Pantone colors (or getting as close as possible) is very critical when handling a major company's brand assets. Some of these clients will do sign companies a favor by also having other material specs in addition to the Pantone colors. Those could be opaque and translucent vinyl colors (often 3M). But the Pantone thing is extremely common.

Small business owners and individual customers don't know much about Pantone, or even what a spot color is and don't really care either. But they can get picky about colors. Having a Pantone Color Formula Guide swatch book handy can help them make up their mind and let us know clearly what they want. One person's idea of "Kelly Green" is very different from the next person. Subjective color names mean zero. Color numbers from a swatch book is real information.

It's always about the short term gain, most companies bonus structure is set up this way. Make all you can now because next year they are going to raise the bar and you might not get anything. It's a silly setup but in todays world, everything is about today and the top brass will milk one and simply move on to the next when the gravy stops flowing.

The Private Equity ideology of "big business" today has worsened this short term thinking. Decades ago a CEO of a big company was usually a guy who worked up the ranks for many years in a career at that company. Then CEOs turned into journeymen who get hired by the company's board and then fired a few years later once their bag of tricks stops goosing up the stock price. Private equity firms seem to prefer buying up big companies, taking them private, running them into the ground and bleeding them dry of all assets -and doing so as fast as possible. It's either that or they dress up the company enough to sell to another private equity outfit (kind of like what happened with Corel getting passed from Vector Capital over to KKR).

 

[JBurton]

Are you trolling

Too lazy to, I just copied the post I was replying to, and asked chatgpt to respond or rewrite, I forget which...

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Matching Pantone colors (or getting as close as possible) is very critical when handling a major company's brand assets. Some of these clients will do sign companies a favor by also having other material specs in addition to the Pantone colors. Those could be opaque and translucent vinyl colors (often 3M). But the Pantone thing is extremely common.

Small business owners and individual customers don't know much about Pantone, or even what a spot color is and don't really care either. But they can get picky about colors. Having a Pantone Color Formula Guide swatch book handy can help them make up their mind and let us know clearly what they want. One person's idea of "Kelly Green" is very different from the next person. Subjective color names mean zero. Color numbers from a swatch book is real information.

Oh I see that, I see the comprehensive branding book that they have, size/spacing (even though at that, it isn't good for some type of productions and it shows with previous quality, but that was the spec that they had), even had it broken down with regard to shirt sizes as well. I don't know if it was because there was only one brand that offered Pantone matching (and it was premium) or they had dealt with too many others before me that said it couldn't be done (and even though there was Pantone matching for some colors, it wasn't all of them, at least not at that time, that may have changed, it's been awhile), but they were lax about that one area compared to others. So it all depends.

I have found that the knowledge pool in general has gone down lately. Maybe it's because I'm getting up there in yrs and I still remember doing things before computers were the mainstay (and actually still enjoy that process) and while I do enjoy my computers, they have abstracted way too much from people and that's shame, but I digress too much on that.

 

[Bobby H]

I'm surprised companies like Toyo and Trumatch haven't been able to put much of a dent in Pantone's dominance of color libraries for print. Pantone has been around for a long time though.

I have found that the knowledge pool in general has gone down lately. Maybe it's because I'm getting up there in yrs and I still remember doing things before computers were the mainstay (and actually still enjoy that process) and while I do enjoy my computers, they have abstracted way too much from people and that's shame, but I digress too much on that.

Back when graphics production work was done using analog methods it was common for employers to require formal training and even 4-year degrees. It was either that or making someone do a lot of apprentice work and learn enough to be worthy of hiring.

Today being a "graphic designer" isn't much better than being a burger flipper. Hiring standards are very low. Honestly, I can't blame all the small business owners and other graphics customers taking the DIY route, using apps like Canva to get their work done. That's because they don't know what they're going to get hiring a "professional graphic designer." The "pro" may be some guy who is just doing design work as a side hustle and has no more talent or experience than the clients hiring him.

I hate to say it, but if I could go back in time to when I was still in high school I would choose a different career path. If my workplace went bust I wouldn't go to work at another sign company. I'd get a job doing something else.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I'm surprised companies like Toyo and Trumatch haven't been able to put much of a dent in Pantone's dominance of color libraries for print. Pantone has been around for a long time though.

It's kinda like people obsession with long in the tooth 30+ yr old software, there is history there. Rather or not it's the best choice now doesn't have as much relevance in people's mind compared to what they know or especially when they were younger (in school particularly). There is a reason why "get them while they are young" is a thing. One of the nice things having been born in a time when things were more analog.

Back when graphics production work was done using analog methods it was common for employers to require formal training and even 4-year degrees. It was either that or making someone do a lot of apprentice work and learn enough to be worthy of hiring.

For what I have done, it was always learning from someone else (and that was for 2 non sign related things). Ironically that is still the best way to do it. Going through a college now (and I have done that) isn't what it was like in the past, even when I had gone the quality had started to go down hill (although that would be debatable with some people, just within my experience with going mind you), but not only that, basic supply and demand. Too many people have college degrees (alot of them are worthless (mine was in a hard science and I consider it worthless, I chose it, so that was my bad, but still worthless)). The only advantage that college has now is for those degrees that are required by law. Outside of that, not really worth it for a lot of reasons.

Today being a "graphic designer" isn't much better than being a burger flipper. Hiring standards are very low. Honestly, I can't blame all the small business owners and other graphics customers taking the DIY route, using apps like Canva to get their work done. That's because they don't know what they're going to get hiring a "professional graphic designer." The "pro" may be some guy who is just doing design work as a side hustle and has no more talent or experience than the clients hiring him.

That's the way it is for a lot of industries now. And only going to get worse. With more abstraction (and the buzz word of AI(and that's really all this is, it's not really AI) is yet another), the less people are going to learn what is going on under the hood and that knowledge will be lost for the majority of people. We have seen that in a lot of areas already before this latest nonsense, a lot of people have complained about some of them on here over the years.

I hate to say it, but if I could go back in time to when I was still in high school I would choose a different career path. If my workplace went bust I wouldn't go to work at another sign company. I'd get a job doing something else.

For that to happen for me, I would have had to have been born in a different time and in one direction (my preferable one), I would have probably ended up the same. If I had been born any later (I shudder at that though), yea, probably not have gone down that route for a variety of reasons. Now, I'm not advocating this route for the kids. I just don't know if I would have changed much, because that would have required other changes to take place as well. I would rather not contemplate that.