These people give signs a bad name

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'm eating takeout from a hibachi restaurant, out in my truck because I don't like eating alone in crowded restaurants and having other people see me inhale my food like an animal... when across the parking lot I see a 4x8 poly sign turning brown. I finish my salmon, check to make sure I didn't spill any of the 4 different containers of sauces on myself and go in and pitch the guy a new sign. He says he already paid someone a deposit on a new one... 3 months ago. Wow, I said, that is NOT normal, I'd have it up in less then two weeks at MOST. He said the guy told him he's having printer problems, to which I told him I would use translucent cut vinyl which would last much longer. I got his e-mail, went back to my salmon-smelling truck and typed up a bid and sent it to him.

Tonight I get home and I get a nasty email from the guy that he bought his signs from. Well, I faintly recognize the name from a guy that emailed me about looking for a job and also wanting me to give him a price on installing two 4x8 polys. I gave him the price and never heard back. He sends me this:

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Wow man! Really? I can’t believe you would go behind my back and try to underbid me on a job that I already have. I called you about helping me do the install and then you sneak around behind my back and under bid me? You know I was hoping you weren’t a backstabber like most of the other companies here in Tyler but after that man I just don’t know.
you know if you had called me to help you with an install or to print some graphics for you, I would’ve never done that to you.
If that’s how you conduct business then I sure don’t want to come work for you.
You don’t have to reply back. Thanks
-----

Previous Email from that guy
---
Friday, March 16, 2018, 3:57:54 PM CDT
my name is ***.. i spoke to you a little while back on facebook messenger
to see if you were needing any help..
still interested in talking to you about that if you’re needing someone..
also, what would you charge me to remove TWO 4’x8’ ploy sign faces and slide in TWO new ones??
the top of the lighted sign box is about 15 feet off the ground..
thanks,

---

My reply was: "Question... how am I supposed to know who your customer was?"

This guy is embarrassing to the sign industry... I'm also embarrassed that I was cheaper then him! Lol

 

[bannertime]

Oh boy, if I could speak my mind...

"oh what you mean? I can have a lift delivered on site for cheaper than that!" Then do that buddy. I don't actually care. We'll likely be fixing your stuff soon anyway.

 

[Johnny Best]

TexasSignmaker quote from a post he started on how is everyone's business:
"Ive been raising prices because of the increase in business, been decllining jobs too big and too small and focusing on what I can do easily for the most $$."
So why would you go after the work if you don't really need it, and your price was lower than this other person who already had the job? And you still went after it?
Plus in another post you stated you have Crohn's disease and your eating in your truck from a fast food place with #4 different sauces because you eat like an animal. But, you still get out of your truck to get the guy's sign work before you finish eating. An animal would not stop eating but finish up everything before moving on to something else.
I don't blame the guy for giving you crap in an email, and he probably feels just like I do about people in the sign business giving it a bad name.
Also about your bathroom habits in that other post, too much information. You need a vacation Dude.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

TexasSignmaker quote from a post he started on how is everyone's business:
"Ive been raising prices because of the increase in business, been decllining jobs too big and too small and focusing on what I can do easily for the most $$."
So why would you go after the work if you don't really need it, and your price was lower than this other person who already had the job? And you still went after it?
Plus in another post you stated you have Crohn's disease and your eating in your truck from a fast food place with #4 different sauces because you eat like an animal. But, you still get out of your truck to get the guy's sign work before you finish eating. An animal would not stop eating but finish up everything before moving on to something else.
I don't blame the guy for giving you crap in an email, and he probably feels just like I do about people in the sign business giving it a bad name.
Also about your bathroom habits in that other post, too much information. You need a vacation Dude.

I was finished eating... was done 5 min after I started! Even though I'm busy it wouldn't stop me from still plucking the low hanging fruit. Two 4x8 polys with cut vinyl is easy job for me... Yes I was embarrassed I was lower then him... I'll rethink raising prices even more.

 

[Marlene]

I want to make sure I have the facts straight. You saw a nasty looking sign, went in to offer to bid a new one. At that point, you were told that the person had a sign company and had given a deposit and was waiting for the new sign. You then told the guy the sign company was slow and should have done the sign with vinyl. You then sent the person a bid for the job. Where I get confused is did the person sign off on your bid and cancel their order with the other sign company? Is that why the other sign company was ticked off and contacted you?

 

[BUCKY]

I was finished eating... was done 5 min after I started! Even though I'm busy it wouldn't stop me from still plucking the low hanging fruit. Two 4x8 polys with cut vinyl is easy job for me... Yes I was embarrassed I was lower then him... I'll rethink raising prices even more.

Texas Sign.....Weren't you the one a while back in a post who said they do a set of magnetics for like $35 bucks all day long because they are "temporary,"
and people like me are nuts for trying to get paid for them?

Now here you are on your hands and knees begging this restaurant owner to let you do his signs, (for less money of course). You were told a deposit
was already paid and in process for the signs and yet you still try to slither your way in the door.

On top of that you are now degrading this fellow sign person because you feel everyone should be Johnny on the spot like you. Well I got news for you.
Someday if you do ever get busy, 90 days on production and completion is not out of the question in a good sign shop.

Sounds to me like the new guy is busier than you, and is on track with sign Industry pricing. You should take note and not burn bridges because
someday you may just be working for him.

Johnny best... you hit the nail on the head.

 

[rjssigns]

Wonder what the other shops in town think of me? I needed a new PC and walked into the local store. Owner came out and asked what I needed. I told him and he said: "Signs huh, want to do my windows"? I said: "Yes." He asks: "When can you have it done"? "Last shop was here months ago, took measurements, sent a quote and never showed up. Latest one did the same thing and it's been nearly six weeks with zero contact."

I did all the windows the following week in exchange for a stupid fast computer.

Lesson for the Day: If the guy in the OP's story would have handled his sh!t there wouldn't be anything to whine about.

 

[Gino]

Yeah, really, let's stay consistent here. Between your up and down prices, your above board business ethics and eating that kinda crap with crohn's..... do you do anything right ??

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Yeah, really, let's stay consistent here. Between your up and down prices, your above board business ethics and eating that kinda crap with crohn's..... do you do anything right ??

I know my eating is bad

Texas Sign.....Weren't you the one a while back in a post who said they do a set of magnetics for like $35 bucks all day long because they are "temporary,"
and people like me are nuts for trying to get paid for them?

Now here you are on your hands and knees begging this restaurant owner to let you do his signs, (for less money of course). You were told a deposit
was already paid and in process for the signs and yet you still try to slither your way in the door.

Wow, are we talking about the same post? You really missed the reality of what went on...maybe re-read.

Texas Sign.....Weren't you the one a while back in a post who said they do a set of magnetics for like $35 bucks all day long because they are "temporary,"
and people like me are nuts for trying to get paid for them?

I said this??

and is on track with sign Industry pricing.

Maybe he is better at pricing. He got the customer to agree to $2300 for two 4x8's when I priced them at $1500 (White background, three lines of black text, installed on a ground level monument.) Figured After labor and materials it would be 1k profit for about a half day of work for one guy... I must be thinking too cheaply.

Sounds to me like the new guy is busier than you,

Highly doubt this.. He twice emailed me about want to work for us. I guess you missed that too.



Update: The customer talked to the guy and he said he's had the signs done and that he cant install them. He told the customer he can pick them up for $500 and find someone to do it. (As a side note: I quoted him the install 2 months ago and told him I require payment upfront.. maybe he got in a jam and couldn't pay to have it put up)

 

[Marlene]

Maybe he is better at pricing. He got the customer to agree to $2300 for two 4x8's when I priced them at $1500 (White background, three lines of black text, installed on a ground level monument.) Figured After labor and materials it would be 1k profit for about a half day of work for one guy... I must be thinking too cheaply

This wasn't at the start of the customer's search for a quote, it was after he contracted with another company. Going in, bad mouthing the other company, low balling his quote and then taking the job from him doesn't sound like it is the other guy who gives signs a bad name to me.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

This wasn't at the start of the customer's search for a quote, it was after he contracted with another company. Going in, bad mouthing the other company, low balling his quote and then taking the job from him doesn't sound like it is the other guy who gives signs a bad name to me.

Ok, your the second one to have a major misunderstanding so let me clear this up.

::EDIT:: For those that like to jump to conclusions, READ CAREFULLY THE SEQUENCE OF THE STORY SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT.

I saw a dingy sign and talked to the owner and said we could quote him on replacing it. He asked me how much and I told him $1500. He then told me he already had another sign company paid to do it but they havn't responded in 3 months. I told him wow, we're only running a few weeks right now. He wanted me to give him a written estimate and I said if the other company falls though, give us a call.

Not sure where I bad mouthed him. How do I "sneak in" and take the job? You ever stopped somewhere that has a dingy sign and pitched them? Maybe you and this other sign guy are in the boat and take offense to having bad customer service... like not responding for 3 months and not answering your phone. That's not how I operate.. my word is good!

The only one that lost here was the customer. He is out his $1200 he paid with the other company

 

[BUCKY]

I know my eating is bad



Wow, are we talking about the same post? You really missed the reality of what went on...maybe re-read.




I said this??



Maybe he is better at pricing. He got the customer to agree to $2300 for two 4x8's when I priced them at $1500 (White background, three lines of black text, installed on a ground level monument.) Figured After labor and materials it would be 1k profit for about a half day of work for one guy... I must be thinking too cheaply.



Highly doubt this.. He twice emailed me about want to work for us. I guess you missed that too.



Update: The customer talked to the guy and he said he's had the signs done and that he cant install them. He told the customer he can pick them up for $500 and find someone to do it. (As a side note: I quoted him the install 2 months ago and told him I require payment upfront.. maybe he got in a jam and couldn't pay to have it put up)

Oh I read it, and it sounds like the consensus here is pretty even on how your story goes and your business tactics.
Keep up the good work.

 

[BUCKY]

Ok, your the second one to have a major misunderstanding so let me clear this up.

I saw a dingy sign and talked to the owner and said we could quote him on replacing it. He asked me how much and I told him $1500. He then told me he already had another sign company paid to do it but they havn't responded in 3 months. I told him wow, we're only running a few weeks right now. He wanted me to give him a written estimate and I said if the other company falls though, give us a call.

Not sure where I bad mouthed him. How do I "sneak in" and take the job? You ever stopped somewhere that has a dingy sign and pitched them? Maybe you and this other sign guy are in the boat and take offense to having bad customer service... like not responding for 3 months and not answering your phone. That's not how I operate.. my word is good!

The only one that lost here was the customer. He is out his $1200 he paid with the other company

And you quoted: 3 months ago. Wow, I said, that is NOT normal, I'd have it up in less then two weeks at MOST. He said the guy told him he's having printer problems, to which I told him I would use translucent cut vinyl which would last much longer.

And in swoops you...Superman.

You should quit while you're ahead. Your story is all over the place.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Lots of double standards on these forums.

Nothing "sneaky" about taking work from another sign company that's dragging their feet. If you tell a customer you're going to install their signs and then you don't make any effort to stay in touch with your customer, and never install their signs, that's your problem. Unless you call every other sign company in town every time you do a job, I can almost guarantee that at some point you've "stolen" work from another company.

Texas_Signmaker called on a dude with a crummy sign and got work. He didn't wait for somebody to place an order. Around here we call that good work ethic.

[Edit: To be clear, this is a BUSINESS and he's working to put food on his table and money in his pocket. If the other guy isn't working as hard, which it sounds like he isn't, and he can't keep his own jobs that he's already sold, that's his problem.]

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Oh I read it, and it sounds like the consensus here is pretty even on how your story goes and your business tactics.
Keep up the good work.

Lol, so if you get a deposit from a customer, your printer breaks and you don't respond for 3 months.. and another sign company sees your client's old sign getting dingy-er and pitches them, they are the unethical ones? Wow JX... I'm really surprised at your responses.

 

[equippaint]

The real issue is the guy that took a large deposit on a sign and disappeared. Then he magically reappears when he gets word of someone else going after it. You snooze you lose. So what did tx do wrong exactly?

 

[Marlene]

He says he already paid someone a deposit on a new one... 3 months ago. Wow, I said, that is NOT normal, I'd have it up in less then two weeks at MOST. He said the guy told him he's having printer problems

The guy did respond as you said in your first post. He told the customer he was having printer problems so at that point, he responded and it looks like the customer was OK with that or he would have cancelled the job. The bad mouthing was you saying "WOW". The low balling was knowing what he bid and under bidding that.

 

[Gino]

Let me preface this by saying..... I could care less how you do business, but to think we're as stupid as you think we are is another story.

Your buddies here, who think this was on the up and up can think whatever they want, too. Suffice it to say, anyone not knowing what they're bidding on 3 months prior, but give a price the guy can't afford, then just happens into the establishment and lowballs the first shop, already knew what he was doing, going into this masquerade.

You just got done with a fake thread on raising your prices and business is up quite a bit, then to underhandedly take this job away (which you knew all along belonged to this other guy) and try to pawn this dumb story about just happened into this same place is just a dumb as most of your other stories. You wanna make 'make believe' stories into something which they aren't.

Again, what I think or anyone else on s101 thinks probably doesn't matter to you, but listen to this...... this/these kinds of actions are gonna catch up to you and you'll be out on your keister with a bad reputation for doing this kinda work. Reputations have a tendency to hang onto you for a lo-o-o-ong time, especially the bad ones.

There are so many holes in this story, it ain't even half believable and about 98% of the people here are all in agreement.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Let me preface this by saying..... I could care less how you do business, but to think we're as stupid as you think we are is another story.

Your buddies here, who think this was on the up and up can think whatever they want, too. Suffice it to say, anyone not knowing what they're bidding on 3 months prior, but give a price the guy can't afford, then just happens into the establishment and lowballs the first shop, already knew what he was doing, going into this masquerade.

You just got done with a fake thread on raising your prices and business is up quite a bit, then to underhandedly take this job away (which you knew all along belonged to this other guy) and try to pawn this dumb story about just happened into this same place is just a dumb as most of your other stories. You wanna make 'make believe' stories into something which they aren't.

Again, what I think or anyone else on s101 thinks probably doesn't matter to you, but listen to this...... this/these kinds of actions are gonna catch up to you and you'll be out on your keister with a bad reputation for doing this kinda work. Reputations have a tendency to hang onto you for a lo-o-o-ong time, especially the bad ones.

There are so many holes in this story, it ain't even half believable and about 98% of the people here are all in agreement.

Your right Gino, and I'm also working for the Russians to take over the sign industry and put everyone out of business, Reading PA is next!

And no, the guy didn't tell me who the bid was for... thats why I posted his first e-mail. Only thing I omitted was his name. He gave me enough info (although slightly incorrect, sign ended up not being 15' high) to bid the install.

You are right, I am leaving out bits of information, the customer's name and the other "sign company's name". I have the actual dossier if you'd like to see for yourself.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

What are the holes in the story? I think the problem is reading comprehension.

It seems pretty straightforward. Texas called on a customer. Customer says he already has somebody working on the signs. Texas tells him that's a long time to wait, tells the guy what he would have charged and how quickly he'd have it done. Customer says he paid more than that, asks for a quote. Texas gives him one.

This isn't Finnegan's Wake or Infinite Jest, it's a pretty easy story line to follow.