To Laminate or not-window perf

[lodcomm]

So let me ask you this, We stopped laminating along time ago when a few of our customers complained that the perf would fog up when the humidity went from high to low and they had no way of clearing it to see. Would you continue doing something that your customers complained about?

Dear 2CT,

Theres your problem right there.. You allowed a customer to Dictate to you what he/she actually wanted! And delivered just that. Shame on you. When your clients started complaining about the fogging issue, the only acceptable professional course of action should have been for you to patiently explain to said customers some version of the following facts:

1) They are the customer, you are the professional.. They have no right whatsoever to ask you for (or even suggest) something specific.. they must only be allowed to accept what you decide is the professional product, that is best for them period.

2) It doesn't Really matter if the laminated perf combo is fogging and causing a vision issue, thats just too bad. The only professional way to print and deliver this product is with laminate overlay. Laugh off their complaints as simply those of the clueless customer. (You can support your contention, and further belittle the customer by noting that several experts on a Sign forum agree that you MUST laminate) No Matter what evidence, proof of failure or examples the customer can submit or supply supporting his request - You stick to your guns, because only an unprofessional hack would try to sell a customer UNLAMINATED PERF!

3) If/When the customer even shows the slightest bit of irritation or continues asking if maybe you can try another solution, it's time to Strongly Reiterate Item #1 and pompously declare to the customer that if he or she wants a sub-par hack product they can get the 'H out of your shop and go somewhere else. (Perhaps refer them to one of the many "Hobby Printers" in and about the area who will do exactly what they want for pennies.)

4) **MOST IMPORTANT** - Immediately after running the Cretin out of your shop - jump on here and post up a glibly worded message seeking encouragement - on how you schooled yet another clueless customer who came to you asking (to pay you) for something to be done a certain way and you beat them down, and when they wouldn't do it your way you Kicked their A$$ right outta' yo shop! Then sit around, hitting the refresh key waiting for the pats on the back, *atta boy's* and other predictable BS to come rolling on in. (Don't forget to include some detailed ranting about how the hobby printer guys are ruining the sign business as well for extra atta-boy points.)

Study those Items, and commit them to memory. Then, and only then will you be on your way to true professionalism.

-t

 

[GAC05]

I supply a care sheet & cleaning kit for all my unlaminated window perf customers.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[AnthonyRalano]

Sorry it is raining I couldn't read the last few posts.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Yes we get very little rain and that was my point... and yes do our fair share of window perf on vehicles. I go through (2) 54" x 164' rolls a month so I guess its enough to be able to say what works for us.

I don't worry about the color fading of the inks since we replace the perf for our clients anyway, so whats the point?

Tired of the pissing matches, aren't you the cause of 99% of them on here?

I guess things are different in other states. I haven't laminated a window perf in 4 years. And I've probably produced and installed 300 or more. Never had a single complaint, and had 100s of repeat customers.

You would think, being in Arizona, we of all people, would be seeing failures left and right. We're not. Wonder why?

Everyone here seems to think you HAVE to laminate so it can be seen through during the rain. What they don't understand is that it rains here about 20 times a year. And then, only for a couple hours. Most of our customers don't drive with the perf in the rain more than a few times a year. When laminated, as you pointed out, humidity kills the visibility every morning for months.

Different stuff for different places. Not hard to understand, you would think.

 

[DesireeM]

I guess things are different in other states. I haven't laminated a window perf in 4 years. And I've probably produced and installed 300 or more. Never had a single complaint, and had 100s of repeat customers.

You would think, being in Arizona, we of all people, would be seeing failures left and right. We're not. Wonder why?

Everyone here seems to think you HAVE to laminate so it can be seen through during the rain. What they don't understand is that it rains here about 20 times a year. And then, only for a couple hours. Most of our customers don't drive with the perf in the rain more than a few times a year. When laminated, as you pointed out, humidity kills the visibility every morning for months.

Different stuff for different places. Not hard to understand, you would think.

True- but laminating perf isn't only to protect the holes from rain and dirt. It's also there to protect the ink from being washed off and it gives UV protection so the ink doesn't fade as quickly. It ensures the life and quality of the vinyl and print.

I guess just do what works for you in your market and either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of your own decisions.

 

[Baz]

I do it this way ...

If i like you = You get laminate
If i don't like you = No laminate for you!

I'm going home, i need a drink

 

[player]

Thank you Signs101 for letting me learn from other professionals.

 

[lodcomm]

True- but laminating perf isn't only to protect the holes from rain and dirt. It's also there to protect the ink from being washed off and it gives UV protection so the ink doesn't fade as quickly. It ensures the life and quality of the vinyl and print.

I guess just do what works for you in your market and either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of your own decisions.

Mr. Desert_Sign,

Please refer to Item #2 in my "path to professionalism" post a few above. You have clearly failed to follow the expertly outlined advice given. The fact that laminating perf in the extreme temperature differentials of Arizona causes fogging and visibility issues is simply to be ignored. No matter how many times you try to explain this anomaly, and your tried & true solution to correcting it, you will endlessly meet with some mindless variation of: "Don't you know what lamination is for! Why it's to protect the ink, from UV & Scratches along with keeping dust of out of perf holes! (I (the mindless poster) know I read in 4-5 posts here that you have a legitimate problem in Arizona with laminated perf fogging, but this means nothing to me, and is therefore irrelevant: What I am able to mindlessly regurgitate is that no matter what you say or do, no matter what Issues you may be having or are trying to solve for your customers is: You MUST LAMINATE!@@!) In fact you will suffer the consequences (Dire, I assume) for your failure to laminate. Please go back to Sign School and review what Laminate is really used for. I am positive that you, living in the brutal sunshine of the Arizona Desert have no concept whatsoever of UV protection or Ink Fading issues. You really need to get up to speed here.

-t

 

[Gino]

Wow-wee..... you're so smart lod. I had no idea we had such knowledgeable people within the walls of this community. You told 2CT and DesireeM right into their place, huh ??

I guess we should listen to you more often as you not only seem to know a lot about the sign industry, but you even know how to write making sense out of these dummies who don't know diddly..... like you do.

Please go on and tell us more. This is like being back in school again, but with a very scholarly professor who knows his sh!t.



By the way, I have this ache in my knee and the doctor says it's arthritis. I don't believe him because I know other people with the same kinda pain in their knees, too. We all think they just wanna make money on us, but with your vast knowledge, do you think we could just not worry about it and ignore what they say ?? Oh..... and what do you think we can do for this pain. It seems to be moving around and concentrating in my butt sometimes...... like right now, lod.

 

[GAC05]

By the way, I have this ache in my knee and the doctor says it's arthritis. I don't believe him because I know other people with the same kinda pain in their knees, too. We all think they just wanna make money on us, but with your vast knowledge, do you think we could just not worry about it and ignore what they say ?? Oh..... and what do you think we can do for this pain. It seems to be moving around and concentrating in my butt sometimes...... like right now, lod.

You should definitely wrap that knee with lam, I'd use calendered, the extra 2mils of thickness will add support.


wayne k
guam usa

 

[player]

You should definitely wrap that knee with lam, I'd use calendered, the extra 2mils of thickness will add support.


wayne k
guam usa

Just plain per will let some air in.

 

[DesireeM]

Mr. Desert_Sign,

Please refer to Item #2 in my "path to professionalism" post a few above. You have clearly failed to follow the expertly outlined advice given. The fact that laminating perf in the extreme temperature differentials of Arizona causes fogging and visibility issues is simply to be ignored. No matter how many times you try to explain this anomaly, and your tried & true solution to correcting it, you will endlessly meet with some mindless variation of: "Don't you know what lamination is for! Why it's to protect the ink, from UV & Scratches along with keeping dust of out of perf holes! (I (the mindless poster) know I read in 4-5 posts here that you have a legitimate problem in Arizona with laminated perf fogging, but this means nothing to me, and is therefore irrelevant: What I am able to mindlessly regurgitate is that no matter what you say or do, no matter what Issues you may be having or are trying to solve for your customers is: You MUST LAMINATE!@@!) In fact you will suffer the consequences (Dire, I assume) for your failure to laminate. Please go back to Sign School and review what Laminate is really used for. I am positive that you, living in the brutal sunshine of the Arizona Desert have no concept whatsoever of UV protection or Ink Fading issues. You really need to get up to speed here.

-t

Wow...you're really on the warpath aren't you? I'm not sure why you're so butthurt over my comment. You must have misunderstood. I didn't tell him to ignore the complaints of his customer. In fact I started out my reply by agreeing with him. I just wanted to add that while NOT laminating the perf solves his fogging issue it actually creates other problems with the ink and life of the product. I didn't tell him he HAD to laminate. In fact I ended my reply by saying to do what works in his market and if he benefits from it then all the better. Some may benefit, some may suffer -it's up to the individual to decide.

Maybe you thought I was being sarcastic. I wasn't.

On a side note - your obscenely exaggerated use of sarcasm is doing you a disservice. It has it's uses and can add humor to a debate but in moderation. No one is mistaking you for carefree and lighthearted. It does not make you seem witty. It makes you seem whiny.

 

[lodcomm]

True- but laminating perf isn't only to protect the holes from rain and dirt. It's also there to protect the ink from being washed off and it gives UV protection so the ink doesn't fade as quickly. It ensures the life and quality of the vinyl and print.

I guess just do what works for you in your market and either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of your own decisions.

Wow-wee..... you're so smart lod. I had no idea we had such knowledgeable people within the walls of this community. You told 2CT and DesireeM right into their place, huh ??

I guess we should listen to you more often as you not only seem to know a lot about the sign industry, but you even know how to write making sense out of these dummies who don't know diddly..... like you do.

Please go on and tell us more. This is like being back in school again, but with a very scholarly professor who knows his sh!t.

By the way, I have this ache in my knee and the doctor says it's arthritis. I don't believe him because I know other people with the same kinda pain in their knees, too. We all think they just wanna make money on us, but with your vast knowledge, do you think we could just not worry about it and ignore what they say ?? Oh..... and what do you think we can do for this pain. It seems to be moving around and concentrating in my butt sometimes...... like right now, lod.

Hi There Mr Gino,

I believe you have some unanswered questions to attend to in post #45. Once you blubber your way through answering those, I'll be more than happy to jump the thread over to General Chit-Chat and we can discuss your "hemorrhoidal issues" in detail over there.

Thats your current assignment, I'll grade you on your answers.

Prof Lodcomm

 

[lodcomm]

Wow...you're really on the warpath aren't you? I'm not sure why you're so butthurt over my comment. You must have misunderstood. I didn't tell him to ignore the complaints of his customer. In fact I started out my reply by agreeing with him. I just wanted to add that while NOT laminating the perf solves his fogging issue it actually creates other problems with the ink and life of the product. I didn't tell him he HAD to laminate. In fact I ended my reply by saying to do what works in his market and if he benefits from it then all the better. Some may benefit, some may suffer -it's up to the individual to decide.

Maybe you thought I was being sarcastic. I wasn't.

On a side note - your obscenely exaggerated use of sarcasm is doing you a disservice. It has it's uses and can add humor to a debate but in moderation. No one is mistaking you for carefree and lighthearted. It does not make you seem witty. It makes you seem whiny.

Hi DesireeM,

My Apologies for being Whiny, I'll work on that. My Question for you is: That in the 45 or so posts on this thread, many dealing with some folks out in arizona having issues with laminated perf causing fogging Issues and one of the guys posting that he had done something like 300 unlaminated perf installs with no problems or complaints: Did you actually believe that these guys didn't know that Laminate Protects the ink? If that is the case, I'm curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion? - If you didn't think that, then I'm equally curious as to why you would post such a message?

regards,

-t

 

[Gino]

Hi There Mr Gino,

I believe you have some unanswered questions to attend to in post #45. Once you blubber your way through answering those, I'll be more than happy to jump the thread over to General Chit-Chat and we can discuss your "hemorrhoidal issues" in detail over there.

Thats your current assignment, I'll grade you on your answers.

Prof Lodcomm

Hi DesireeM,

My Apologies for being Whiny, I'll work on that. My Question for you is: That in the 45 or so posts on this thread, many dealing with some folks out in arizona having issues with laminated perf causing fogging Issues and one of the guys posting that he had done something like 300 unlaminated perf installs with no problems or complaints: Did you actually believe that these guys didn't know that Laminate Protects the ink? If that is the case, I'm curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion? - If you didn't think that, then I'm equally curious as to why you would post such a message?

regards,

-t

Ya know, this thread is about dead, but who the f*ck died and left you in charge ??


I'm supposed to answer questions because you say so ?? What a pudden-head.

Because someone speaks the truth and makes sense, then you can find one area or iota where the rule might not work 100%, you call them on it ??
You actually think you are this mental giant and have all the authority to just say things with absolutely no proof or backup and just order people around ??

Being whiny, having your facts all f*cked up and talking out your @ss seems to be your really strong suit, Prof lod. As for hemorrhoids, I was trying to be nice and referring to you Prof 'H'.

You think these manufacturing companies just make up warranties for no reason at all, just so you and people from 2 people from Arizona can make up stuff about why not to use laminate ?? Get real Prof 'H'. Has it ever occurred to you or them, that perhaps they are doing something subtly wrong ?? Perhaps the customer has done something wrong ?? Why is it, only a handful of people complaining about the same problem solve it by doing nothing.... or should I say less ?? Instead of finding a laminate which will work, just omit that part of the equation and send them on their way. Now, you've not only violated the warranty, you've just given a sub-par product. No one ever made mention of what research they did into other products, better products or a totally different approach. No. You just accept them at their word IT didn't work and that's that. I would think there are other states out there with much the same climate, let alone many other countries, represented here on s101, with similar if not exactly the same conditions. Why has this never been discussed until by accident by two members.

While I will believe what they say to be an answer.... that does not mean it's the correct answer. That's the bottom line here. However, you're too hung up on yourself to comprehend what others are nicely saying to them...... and you.


Take a chill pill , get plenty of rest and call me tomorrow morning.