To meat or not to meat, that is the question.

[WildWestDesigns]

Actually, it has everything to do with the discussion. While we're not increasing our muscle size or tone, we are discussing people taking certain habits, fads, diets to extremes and claiming it to be Godsend to a certain extent.

I agree with the above, that is not actually what I had in mind when I said I shouldn't have digressed. I might have taken a different connection then what you had intended though. Especially considering your response.

Nothing wrong with believing in what you do, eat or how one sees things is right or wrong, but there are many many other possibilities out there, saying the same thing someone else is, but using different words. I'm not a fan of calling people names like Redneck or implying others are smug, just because I don't agree with them. However, calling a newbie a newbie or a hack a hack is different. Then, you are describing someone and not making fun of them. Calling someone names should be done in person, not here. Among friends, that can be done..... I do it all the time, but here, all the people are so-self absorbed with basically nothing, they take offense to honest fun. Most of this earlier was not done in fun.

Are you talking in generalities here or are you talking about me specifically? I do not believe that I resorted to name calling as it doesn't serve the discussion at all. I believe a good healthy debate helps people try to find some truth out there. Resorting to name calling doesn't server any purpose other to distract from what is being said.

 

[Marlene]

"some hillbilly name bob" I have heard bob called a lot of things but this is the first time for hillbilly. thanks for the laugh, I nearly choked on my sodium rich diet Pepsi! I think we all know Americans eat a lot foods that aren't good for them. anyone making a choice in any direction away from that is smart. what direction you take is by choice of the person

 

[Gino]

I agree with the above, that is not actually what I had in mind when I said I shouldn't have digressed. I might have taken a different connection then what you had intended though. Especially considering your response.



Are you talking in generalities here or are you talking about me specifically? I do not believe that I resorted to name calling as it doesn't serve the discussion at all. I believe a good healthy debate helps people try to find some truth out there. Resorting to name calling doesn't server any purpose other to distract from what is being said.

No, not you in the slightest. You are being quite fair and above board. I was speaking 'Subject in General'. I'm no judge nor mediator, but since we no longer have the NHB club, I'd like to think we are all adult enough to keep this thing going and the silly name calling is just not needed.

 

[rdm01]

Someone said the other day-

If you can't pronounce the words for the ingredients in the food you want to buy, don't buy it.

Unfortunately I can pronounce some pretty long words.

Careful with this. We've successfully warded of scurvy with dihydrogen monoxide and ascorbic acid. (also known as water and vitamin C).

 

[Gino]

Careful with this. We've successfully warded of scurvy with dihydrogen monoxide and ascorbic acid. (also known as water and vitamin C).

I've often wondered if those findings are true or not.........??​

 

[decalman]

I always get the image of how the earthlings are portrayed in WALL-E whenever seeing images like this. Our future is ours, we can either continue down "denial" highway and literally eat our society into instability and bankruptcy or we can figure out that all of our choices have consequences..

Sad to say, that this is a typical American couple.
They just shopped at Walmart, and are now gorging on diseased dead animals, and high fructose corn syrup..
They are Obama care candidates.

 

[decalman]

Diseased animals.

The hamburgers you eat today, aren't the same burgers your granddaddy ate.

All meat, sold in any supermarket, comes from unhealthy diseased sickly animals. Cancerous, TB, and laden with filth.
80% of fast food burgers, have dung in it. You are what you eat..

Vegetarians live lots longer, and have way less health problems, than meat eaters.
Horses , and elephants and any other plant eater you can think of, lives lots longer than meat eating animals. Lions , wolves etc.

Good food, makes good blood...Bad food, makes bad blood.

Blood goes through your system, to nourish your organs.
Contaminated blood, pollutes the whole system, causing a breakdown, of the organs.
Good blood, comes from raw plants, nourishes the system causing good health, and healthy countenance.

Every disease is caused by something. Cause and effect. If we are unhealthy, then something caused that. It wasn't fate. It most likely stemmed from our choices.
We are free to choose how to care for these bodies we live in.

If everyone cared properly for themselves, then there would be no rich doctors, or expensive health care.

 

[signcrafters london]

All meat, sold in any supermarket, comes from unhealthy diseased sickly animals. Cancerous, TB, and laden with filth.
80% of fast food burgers, have dung in it. You are what you eat..

Vegetarians live lots longer, and have way less health problems, than meat eaters.
Horses , and elephants and any other plant eater you can think of, lives lots longer than meat eating animals. Lions , wolves etc.

Among the "any other plant-eaters" that I thought of are cattle and pigs. How is that they become unhealthy, diseased and sickly? In my state I see hundreds of these fine vegetarian specimens per day, all grazing on grass and/or eating corn.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Well, that's not entirely true.

Alligators have lifespans that can reach 50 years. Komodo dragons live 30+ years. Polar bears live around 30 years. They all have exclusively meat diets.

A cow lives about 15 years.

 

[HulkSmash]

Super duper cool story bro.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The hamburgers you eat today, aren't the same burgers your granddaddy ate.

I think you would be surprised where I get the inputs for my burgers.

All meat, sold in any supermarket, comes from unhealthy diseased sickly animals. Cancerous, TB, and laden with filth.

All meat, really? Either we have developed a certain level of tolerance or it's amazing that people of any number survive.

Let's not forget to that the first GMO to hit supermarkets I believe was the tomato. 1994 I believe it was. I do believe, that there is even in the works for a more lycopene rich tomato GMO as well. Not good for Alicia since she is allergic to that chemical. Have you ever read the stomach issues that can come from eating too much tomatoes? This would also include beets, fruits (other fruits then the tomato) and berries that are rich in lycopene. Lycopene is good for you, but too much, no bueno.

However, if you firmly believe that all meat in the supermarkets is very sub par in order make a buck, why don't you think that it would apply to food crops as well? The leafy greens, the corn, the peppers?

80% of fast food burgers, have dung in it. You are what you eat..

I would actually be surprised that 80% of fast food burgers were actually real meat.

However, did you know foals indulge in coprophagy? It is also an essential part of growth and development for them. As disgusting as it may sound, even dung has a place in some diets (can be up until 6 months of age).

Vegetarians live lots longer, and have way less health problems, than meat eaters.
Horses , and elephants and any other plant eater you can think of, lives lots longer than meat eating animals. Lions , wolves etc.

I think that during my sister and niece's time as only veggie eaters might disagree with that assessment.

Fescue, which is a big part of livestock diet around here has such a thing as fescue toxicity. For horses, during a certain live stage, no bueno. I'm not even talking about the GMO grasses.

Good food, makes good blood...Bad food, makes bad blood.

That can be applied to plant matter as well.

It all goes back into how it's processed. How it's handled.

Blood goes through your system, to nourish your organs.
Contaminated blood, pollutes the whole system, causing a breakdown, of the organs.
Good blood, comes from raw plants, nourishes the system causing good health, and healthy countenance.

Every disease is caused by something. Cause and effect. If we are unhealthy, then something caused that. It wasn't fate. It most likely stemmed from our choices.
We are free to choose how to care for these bodies we live in.

Again, I see this all or nothing, this can be applied to both types of diets. I do not believe the issue to be rather to eat meat or to eat veggies. It is how it is made, that's what's getting use. You even opened up your discussion hinting that very thing.

Meat products, now, do tend to have a lot of man made "stuff" in them. Plant products not quite as much, but there is some there, don't think there isn't. In that regard meat might be worse for you then plant matter, but not because it's inherently bad for us, but because of either what we have done to it and/or how much we consume of it.

How much we consume of anything can be bad for us depending on what it is.

If everyone cared properly for themselves, then there would be no rich doctors, or expensive health care.

I do agree that this plays a part, but I don't know if I would agree with no rich doctors. I think plastic surgeons will always be in demand for something.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

all grazing on grass and/or eating corn.

.


Possibly GMO Corn and/or GMO grass.

I have to wonder just how much doesn't have some type of genetic modification somewhere in our food chain.

 

[Andy D]

Sad to say, that this is a typical American couple.
They just shopped at Walmart, and are now gorging on diseased dead animals, and high fructose corn syrup..
They are Obama care candidates.

I saw or read a very interesting factoid a while back, that America uses an outdated BMI from the forties, a time when people tended to be more petite
and had less muscle mass, in fact, by that standard Lance Armstrong would have been considered overweight.

To make matters worse, whenever the press would report on how 75% of Americans are overweight and would show those stomach shots,
they were of obese or super obese people, leading people to believe that the majority of American look like that..

According to this account, Americans on average, are no more or less fat than any other 1st world country... I'm not 100% sure this is true, but I thought it was interesting.
It may have been John Stossel, not sure....

 

[Andy D]

Another fun fat factoid: People that claim fat/obese people run up the cost of health care are wrong...
How can that be? Fat people are much more likely die younger, before retiring and partaking in medicare.
It's the healthy people living 20-30 years on geriatric care.

 

[TimToad]

Another fun fat factoid: People that claim fat/obese people run up the cost of health care are wrong...
How can that be? Fat people are much more likely die younger, before retiring and partaking in medicare.
It's the healthy people living 20-30 years on geriatric care.

I'm not sure what your sources are above and beyond John Stossel, whose bias and agenda is clear, but if you could share any of them, it would help me at least wrap my head around your assertions which seem to miss a few major points.

I'll save you the question of backing up my assertions about John Stossel.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/02/25/the-right-wing-money-putting-john-stossel-in-sc/192777

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/John_Stossel


I'll also grant you that the way our healthcare consumption generally works in this country is similar to how you've described, there are lots of other factors complicating such simple claims. The two life periods from pre-natal to 1 year old and then the last two or three years of life consume about 90% of the average American's healthcare usage over a lifetime. Basically, if you make it beyond infancy, its a cakewalk for most folks for the next 60-75 years if one exercises even a minimal amount of preventative measures. That fact is a key feature and point of the ACA and its inclusion of annual health screenings, free access to preventative health information and programs and encouraging folks to break unhealthful habits. It will also create a major downward pressure on premiums once a critical mass of people make the connection between healthier living and lower costs.

It may appear that the elderly require far more regular healthcare, but the truth is probably that an older person's consumption levels of healthcare depend a lot on an their income, race, lifelong habits, dietary patterns, exercise levels, home environment, marital status, etc...

There are plenty of older folks (especially men and even more so widowers after they've lost a spouse) who suffer in silence and many who simply who can't afford anything beyond the care Medicare provides them.

All the trends I see reported are that "in general" older folks are staying more active, are taking better care of themselves and living higher quality lives as a result.

A morbidly obese person takes many years to achieve that status with lots of health related problems along the way. Most of the health problems associated with that degree of obesity like diabetes, heart problems, hormonal/glandular problems, circulatory issues, back problems, etc. can diminish one's health for a long time and require ongoing care for potentially long periods of time before death.

This thread is getting interesting with more folks contributing, but I'm seeing a lack of opinions about those who choose to eat lower on the food chain for ethical reasons versus medical or health reasons. Is there anyone out there do so, that can share their perspective?

To those still hung up over a few labels and pejoratives being thrown around, I believe the term "Do as I say, not as I do" or is it the other way around? The resident thread cop on the beat does more than his share of labeling, name calling and insults so unwring your undies and get your own ducks in a row before critiquing anybody else.

 

[HulkSmash]

This is literally one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen.

Here's something all you nose raisers should know.

without GMO, we would have a severe food shortage, and we wouldn't eat. We have enough for all the grass grazers out there, but imagine it at a global scale.

Logic. Use it.

 

[TimToad]

This is literally one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen.

Here's something all you nose raisers should know.

without GMO, we would have a severe food shortage, and we wouldn't eat. We have enough for all the grass grazers out there, but imagine it at a global scale.

Logic. Use it.

Nobody forced you to participate.

For a country full of such bravado, self-assuredness about nearly EVERYTHING, we sure are a dumptruck full of scaredy cats ready to buy any line of propaganda the corporate world sells us about most anything.

How does most of Europe get by without GMOs? 19 members of the EU have banned them.

In fact, now that 60 countries around the world have banned them, how How The F^%& are we Americans going to feed all those starving folk?

http://ecowatch.com/2015/10/05/european-union-ban-gmos/

http://www.nongmoproject.org/learn-more/

Most of the world suffering from deep hunger issues has far more to do with food distribution, loss of croplands, climate variables, environmental degradation, lack of topsoil, etc. than whether or not somebody can make a tomato taste like broccoli, never rot or poison any pests that dare try to eat it.

 

[Gino]

I'm not sure what your sources are above and beyond John Stossel, whose bias and agenda is clear, but if you could share any of them, it would help me at least wrap my head around your assertions which seem to miss a few major points.

I'll save you the question of backing up my assertions about John Stossel.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/02/25/the-right-wing-money-putting-john-stossel-in-sc/192777

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/John_Stossel


I'll also grant you that the way our healthcare consumption generally works in this country is similar to how you've described, there are lots of other factors complicating such simple claims. The two life periods from pre-natal to 1 year old and then the last two or three years of life consume about 90% of the average American's healthcare usage over a lifetime. Basically, if you make it beyond infancy, its a cakewalk for most folks for the next 60-75 years if one exercises even a minimal amount of preventative measures. That fact is a key feature and point of the ACA and its inclusion of annual health screenings, free access to preventative health information and programs and encouraging folks to break unhealthful habits. It will also create a major downward pressure on premiums once a critical mass of people make the connection between healthier living and lower costs.

It may appear that the elderly require far more regular healthcare, but the truth is probably that an older person's consumption levels of healthcare depend a lot on an their income, race, lifelong habits, dietary patterns, exercise levels, home environment, marital status, etc...

There are plenty of older folks (especially men and even more so widowers after they've lost a spouse) who suffer in silence and many who simply who can't afford anything beyond the care Medicare provides them.

All the trends I see reported are that "in general" older folks are staying more active, are taking better care of themselves and living higher quality lives as a result.

A morbidly obese person takes many years to achieve that status with lots of health related problems along the way. Most of the health problems associated with that degree of obesity like diabetes, heart problems, hormonal/glandular problems, circulatory issues, back problems, etc. can diminish one's health for a long time and require ongoing care for potentially long periods of time before death.

This thread is getting interesting with more folks contributing, but I'm seeing a lack of opinions about those who choose to eat lower on the food chain for ethical reasons versus medical or health reasons. Is there anyone out there do so, that can share their perspective?

To those still hung up over a few labels and pejoratives being thrown around, I believe the term "Do as I say, not as I do" or is it the other way around? The resident thread cop on the beat does more than his share of labeling, name calling and insults so unwring your undies and get your own ducks in a row before critiquing anybody else.

Call it what ya want. Ya stopped the name callin', huh ??

 

[decalman]

Mad Cow Disease

The meat supply is heavily infected with the notorious.." Mad Cow Disease" & Chicken poop

They don't even test for this. Unless you call testing 1 cow in 1000 testing. They are terrified to check all of them.
The meat industry has major influence and knows how to get it's way

Not only this, but the chicken industry has billions of tons, of chicken poop. Why waste it, they save big on feed. The meat industry buys it on the cheap, and feeds it to your steak..... Bon Appetit


http://www.naturalnews.com/035025_mad_cow_disease_prions_meat.html#

 

[HulkSmash]

Nobody forced you to participate.

For a country full of such bravado, self-assuredness about nearly EVERYTHING, we sure are a dumptruck full of scaredy cats ready to buy any line of propaganda the corporate world sells us about most anything.

How does most of Europe get by without GMOs? 19 members of the EU have banned them.

In fact, now that 60 countries around the world have banned them, how How The F^%& are we Americans going to feed all those starving folk?

http://ecowatch.com/2015/10/05/european-union-ban-gmos/

http://www.nongmoproject.org/learn-more/

Most of the world suffering from deep hunger issues has far more to do with food distribution, loss of croplands, climate variables, environmental degradation, lack of topsoil, etc. than whether or not somebody can make a tomato taste like broccoli, never rot or poison any pests that dare try to eat it.

I understand there are environmental and health concerns over GMO products, but at the same time there is no specific evidence to show that they are actually unsafe. In addition, GMO crops might be very beneficial and contribute to sustainable future for all people.


Every country that has banned it - is because of public opinion not any type of actual FACTS.

You don't see any country with hunger issues banning GMOs?

Nobody forced you to participate.

we sure are a dumptruck full of scaredy cats ready to buy any line of propaganda the corporate world sells us about most anything.

You realize you just proved my point with this 1 statement? Stop buying into silly propaganda.