FACTS? I DON'T NEED NO STINKIN FACTS!
What does it matter anyways? We're just old men yelling at clouds!
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To meat or not to meat, that is the question.
- Thread starter TimToad
- Start date
FACTS? I DON'T NEED NO STINKIN FACTS!
What does it matter anyways? We're just old men yelling at clouds!
Even if one just takes the title of the Forbes article, its specious on it face. The fact that it needed to use cherry picked data from a 10+ year old study of a tiny, totally homogenous population with a national healthcare system unlike our private, for profit system for its writer to arrive at his OPINION is a little bit of a stretch also on making comparisons to our system.
[h=1]"Alcohol, Obesity and Smoking Do Not Cost Health Care Systems Money"[/h]Nowhere does the article even remotely say alcohol, obesity and smoking DO NOT cost healthcare systems money. In fact, it clearly points out that those factors do cost the system money. Sexy title and all to appeal to someone with that particular ideological bent, but not exactly factual.
"They love to use bad science/studies to further their agenda, this is the same government that came up with the food pyramid in the 70's that helped create a diabetes epidemic in the USA."
How is telling people that smoking, abusing alcohol, other poor lifestyle choices and being obese engaging in an agenda or utilizing "bad science"?
Unlike the many years of the alcohol and tobacco industries telling our parents and grandparents how good their products actually were for them, the FDA, CDC and NIH are actually in the keeping people alive and healthy business.
I don't remember the 70's food pyramid, but you'll have to explain how it included requirements that Americans get much less exercise, drink and eat vastly more sugary beverages and foods, live in environmental conditions that diminish people's immune systems and CHOOSE one's parents in advance, which is still the number one cause of diabetes despite all the things some of us would like it to do in order to fulfill our views on government and politics.
It may be real fun to keep throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks, but frankly it bores me to death.
I had no idea the topic of food choices and how they relate to people's health and ethics could be turned so political, but that very politicizing of an innocuous and innocent statement about a pizza slice on a sign by a poster unfamiliar with other posters here is how the whole topic started in the other thread and the way its gone here also.
Sit down and think of happy things for a while Professor, you're going to give yourself an aneurysm.
This isn't the world health organization and I doubt anyone here has a PHD in biology, it's a bunch of old sign guys talking about
cr@p they really don't know much about but have read somewhere...
The study used in both articles wasn't even based in the U.S. of done on subjects in the U.S.
The whole argument is built on a false premise and is pretty typical of the kind of stuff I see out of Forbes and other either libertarian or right leaning think tanks.
If you were take an otherwise healthy smoker, drinker or obese person and choose an identical time period as for the elderly subject matter, then the comparison might have value.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Anything to where you switch fuel sources, it takes a while to get your body used to it.
You don't want to really swap a diet cold turkey.
In truth, some of that could actually explain why people think food A or food B is bad, because their body's aren't used to that diet and they radically switched diets and their body is having a hissy over it.
That's the irony of when some people talk about their fresh veggies. Depending on where they got their seed stock from, they might actually still be GMO plants.
I love it when people just love grass fed beef and yet the grass that the beef are eating is GMO.
I would strongly suggest those trying to evaluate research being done. Focus on how the research is done, not necessarily who said it. In other words, make sure it's to be accepted or rejected based on the research, not because you think the person may or may not have a profit motive (they could still be right and it just helps their profit motive) OR you can't find that "evil" motive easily, so therefore what they say might be more kosher. Try to avoid the fallacious use of ad hominem.
They may or may not derive other benefits from their research, but that doesn't mean that their research is or isn't any less kosher based that perceived motive.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Haha..... Tim.....
You've been here 2 maybe 3 years and you're surprised something like this could turn political..... ?? My gosh, but you are naive. The only part of the equation you probably don't know is, the guy who made what you think is an innocent remark in the other thread.... is a known instigator. That is why I suggested someone take this to another thread, so Neato's thread wouldn't be closed down due to this nonsense. Ya know, other than ya eat, ya sh!t and you do it all over again the next day, who cares ?? Been fun, huh ??
You've been here 2 maybe 3 years and you're surprised something like this could turn political..... ?? My gosh, but you are naive. The only part of the equation you probably don't know is, the guy who made what you think is an innocent remark in the other thread.... is a known instigator. That is why I suggested someone take this to another thread, so Neato's thread wouldn't be closed down due to this nonsense. Ya know, other than ya eat, ya sh!t and you do it all over again the next day, who cares ?? Been fun, huh ??
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Best that I can do is a BS degree in Equine Nutrition and Reproduction, does that count for anything?
It's all good, you are right, we're all just passing some time between the headache customers and stuff we should be doing.
I'm really not as serious as my online persona might make you think and I'm not trying to pick on you personally. Its all just grist for the mill.
Frankly, I didn't expect this thread to go past a few gruff remarks and some ideological baiting early on, but a few folks have thrown out some good food for thought, to use a bad pun on the subject.
I do happen to have multiple immediate family members and close friends with Type 1 diabetes, heart disease and my old man after 60+ years of two packs a day of Parliaments to help inform myself with, along with being a former smoker, various drug user and heavy drinker myself, so I'd say I know a bit more than just what I read on this Interwebs thing. I'll admit that our family gene pool is full of slight of build and average metabolism types, so anything I know about obesity is from things I've read.
Well said, TY.
I look at it from the other perspective, I'm at the age that all my sign mentors are dying off....it seems every other month there's a funeral.
These guys had an unhealthy job, smoked cigarettes, drank coffee all day long and ate whatever cr@p the food truck had that day, drank too many beers
that night and came in hung-over to do it all again the next day. Yes, they're paying the price now, but I doubt any of them would have changed a thing.
It kind of chaps my @ss that some consider those guys a drain on society when they put into the system but never really got to enjoy retirement.
I'm in my mid-50's and most of my mentors are gone, but that's the age we're at. Nobody thought about how their diet, habits and such would affect them as they aged. Hell, these dudes stormed the beaches at Normandy, or elsewhere.
In the inner city Chicago neighborhood I grew up in was a little corner market just like every other neighborhood had. Next to it was an old fashioned sign painter just like every neighborhood had. For thousands of years, signmaking has been a very public and storefront kind of business. As a kid, I'd press my face up against the window and watch him work. I was artistic but from a very blue collar upbringing, so I imagined this was a viable, achievable vocation for me. To this day, that belief is still the reason I get up in the morning. The dude was always covered in paint and the shop was a total mess. But I fell in love with the grace and skill he used his brushes with. He probably didn't think about all the OneShot that he was soaking up through his perpetually paint soaked hands, or the fumes in the air, or the sanded edges of boards, etc. It killed him.
In one way or another, any of us could become a drain on society for a whole host of reasons, many that are out of our control. The fact that most of us aren't can be contributed to lots of different factors and a lot of dumb luck in many cases. The people that don't believe that just haven't ever had something really awful happen to them that they had nothing to do with causing.
Whether you admit it or not, we also are all part of a union of states, under one flag and one set of overriding goals. You know, life, liberty and all that freedom jazz. Thankfully, we're not Somalia or some other disjointed nation where only the physically strong and armed survive. I'm happy to prove my loyalty to my nation by agreeing to fork over a reasonable amount of taxes so those far less able, fortunate or struck by something awful aren't left in the gutter like many were before our nation created a social safety net.
Bly
New Member
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decalman
New Member
That list is a twist, misapplied, leaving out the long list of species that would take up several sheets of 8x10 , which clearly show, that the vegetarian eaters,outlive the flesh eaters. 100% longer.
decalman
New Member
Sad to say, that this is a typical American couple.
They just shopped at Walmart, and are now gorging on diseased dead animals, and high fructose corn syrup..
They are Obama care candidates.
Typical American couple? ....
Bull ****, Where are you from?
No Bull. It's true. What planet are you from? I go to Walmart, on any given day, and I see her, and usually with tattoos, from head to ankle.
DerbyCitySignGuy
New Member
Close to 40% of Americans are overweight, so I think maybe we're not thinking about it enough.
I'm not quite 40 yet, and from what I hear 40 is the new 20. I don't have a PhD, but I definitely took a bunch of biology, anthropology, and even a biological anthropology class during my eight year stint in college. During which I racked up a huge debt and didn't even get a degree. Whoops.
I'd be curious to see where you're getting this information. There are so many variables that factor in to the lifespan of wild animals, trying to boil it down to diet alone is a little sketchy. Coupled with the fact that determining the age of animals in the wild is an incredibly difficult task, anyone who says with any kind of authority that herbivores live twice as long as carnivores is definitely suspect. Any information based on animals in captivity is also suspect.
Anybody can cherry pick data. Sperm whales live around 70 years or so, and they exclusively eat meat. See, I just cherry picked some data to support my argument. Technically speaking, the longest lived animal on the planet is the bowhead whale, which exists solely on a diet of plankton, making them carnivores. More cherry picking.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Close to 40% of Americans are overweight, so I think maybe we're not thinking about it enough.
A lot of misinformation though. I think some want to do the right thing, I have to wonder if the right thing is really being expounding and if it is, is it being expounding loud enough?
I would be willing to bet that most people see an overweight person (and there are varying degrees of that) that they automatically assume that it's due to a meat only diet. Probably wouldn't even consider that they are just plain over consuming a lot of different food stuffs. Meat, processed "foods" and yes even fruit/veggies. And let's not forget that they tend to have a sweet tooth as well.
You consume anything in huge quantities, it's not good for you. I made note of one chemical that's found in fruits especially that is known to help mitigate cancer among other things, however, in huge quantities, you can have issues. Some people are allergic to it in varying degrees. Alicia can eat it depending on how it's being "delivered" (cooked versus raw (and if raw, how big is the fruit and it's content of that specific chemical etc)).
Avocado is great for a lot of things. If you consume way too much of it, again, not good for you. Very high in caloric intake. If you don't exercise (and exercise to where your caloric outtake is at least equal to your intake if not greater), you can get fat from them. Meat need not be involved in order to get fat from them.
My grandmother never found a veggie she liked. She lived to be 101. Long live meat!