translucent vinyl, double strike?

[the graphics co]

Do you use two layers of translucent cut vinyl on a lighted sign cabinet? Or, is that overkill? I am used to printing and don't do much die cut translucent.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[J Hill Designs]

no need to whatsoever

 

[the graphics co]

thank you!

 

[mwidmark]

2nd Layer Backlit Application

I work for a company in SD and we use 2 layers of vinyl to get the 'right color' on backlits. The problem we have is when the backlit is not lit the colors look too dark (oranges look red, greens look black, etc)...
for those of you that use only one layer do you lay the ink on much thicker? I believe that we run our ink on 4pass.. and i have heard from a few people that it's not necessary to lay ink that think as well as laying another layer of vinyl, it's overkill..

any ideas?

 

[SightLine]

I work for a company in SD and we use 2 layers of vinyl to get the 'right color' on backlits. The problem we have is when the backlit is not lit the colors look too dark (oranges look red, greens look black, etc)...
for those of you that use only one layer do you lay the ink on much thicker? I believe that we run our ink on 4pass.. and i have heard from a few people that it's not necessary to lay ink that think as well as laying another layer of vinyl, it's overkill..

any ideas?

On printed ones we do a normal laminated print on backlit vinyl for the front. Then we print a mirror image of the front print on laminate and apply that on the inside of the acrylic. For solid color cut vinyl, nothing special needs to be done. Cut and apply it to the face and you are done.

 

[MikePro]

double-layer for good clients, double-strike for the "cheap ones" (although, we give them the option but they always seem to want to save $$$)

stock trans. colored vinyl? never a need to do anything but cut/apply.

 

[ironchef]

How does your printer do a double strike? Ive only printef on translucent once, my mimaki/rasterlink prints both passes before going to the next pass, so i dont have to go back to origin after printing to reprint it all again, it just takes its time and double strikes per pass

 

[J Hill Designs]

yeah the OP's question was about stock cut trans.

for printed, I've found the best middle ground by mirror print on clear acrylic (overstrike, double pass, high density [depending on RIP]) 2nd surface, and lam with white trans.

overly color critical clients get print on trans first surface, mirror on clear second surface, on white acrylic (neither print over, double, etc)

 

[sfr table hockey]

yeah the OP's question was about stock cut trans.

for printed, I've found the best middle ground by mirror print on clear acrylic (overstrike, double pass, high density [depending on RIP]) 2nd surface, and lam with white trans.

overly color critical clients get print on trans first surface, mirror on clear second surface, on white acrylic (neither print over, double, etc)

Seeing you've answered the OP's question already I am going to jump in as ask one on the printed version.

I see a lot will do the same as I am doing now with printing original file on Trans 3850 and a 2nd print on clear. This is where I differ. I have tended to print the clear copy regular and not reversed and mount to the front of the (white) lexan. Then the 3850 layer gets lined up and mounted on top of the clear. Others have posted about the reverse print on clear being applied to the back side of the lexan. What would be the bonus to doing this way as opposed to both on the front of the face?

Is it more that the thickness of the lexan gives a bit of room for error in the prints matching up exact over top of each other? Or is it more that the light that shines through the clear backside layer gets diffused a bit more with the space between the prints and thus the front layer is not washed out as much?

The ones I have done with the 2 layers on the same side have matched up well and when not lit up, color looks great, as well as good lit at night.

Could anyone add their thoughts?

 

[J Hill Designs]

I do it that way for the 'larger error margin due to thickness of the substrate"

 

[Malkin]

I do it that way for the 'larger error margin due to thickness of the substrate"

+1


I don't know of any other good reason, but this alone is good enough for us.

 

[sfr table hockey]

Ok that makes sense.

At some time I still want to try printing the clear layer with registration marks and then laminate that layer once dry, with the 3850 trans, and then send that back through the printer for a 2nd print. You would think that the registration marks would allow for any shrinkage there may have been once dry and cooled, so that the second print layer should match up at least as close as you could manually.

Only issue is that if you mess up on the 2nd layer print you have destroyed both layers now and the full length no matter how far into the print you were. Might have to hold that test off for just the smaller stuff and not the larger 10 and 12 footers.

 

[Doyle]

Do you have the option in your rip to "over print"? When printing translucent or backlit, I usually just overprint 2 times (from Versaworks), lays down twice the ink, much more opaque. Never have had to align prints together or anything using this method, just takes twice as long to print.... I have always been pleased with the results.

 

[J Hill Designs]

The problem with overprint doublepass etc is the prints are dark in the day to counteract being correct when backlit...

 

[sfr table hockey]

Same reason here as well. There are times when doing a double strike the logo colors come out way darker and do not match the actual original color they want.

For basic signage where matching color is not needed it would be fine.

 

[mwidmark]

Double Strike/Double Layer?

double-layer for good clients, double-strike for the "cheap ones" (although, we give them the option but they always seem to want to save $$$)

stock trans. colored vinyl? never a need to do anything but cut/apply.

so on the prints that are double strike you are only applying one layer of vinyl?

We only apply to polycarbonate second surface. We apply 2 layers of 2nd surface printed transparent vinyl followed by a layer of white translucent diffuser.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if we are using too much ink. We subcontract to a smaller sign company and they seem to think we are using way too much ink on our vinyl to be applying 2 layers of it and I tend to agree but I wanted to see what the industry normal was...

any help or advice is appreciated! thanks!

i forgot to say that are doing double strike on both prints, very thick ink.

 

[Malkin]

so on the prints that are double strike you are only applying one layer of vinyl?

We only apply to polycarbonate second surface. We apply 2 layers of 2nd surface printed transparent vinyl followed by a layer of white translucent diffuser.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if we are using too much ink. We subcontract to a smaller sign company and they seem to think we are using way too much ink on our vinyl to be applying 2 layers of it and I tend to agree but I wanted to see what the industry normal was...

any help or advice is appreciated! thanks!

Interesting method. But it seems to me that your prints would end up too dark during the day, because of those 2 layers stacked right on each other.
Try this: Apply 1 layer of second surface printed transparent vinyl, then apply 1 layer of second surface printed white translucent vinyl.

This should result in more even daytime/nighttime colors, and has the bonus of having only 2 layers of vinyl, not 3.

 

[mwidmark]

Interesting method. But it seems to me that your prints would end up too dark during the day, because of those 2 layers stacked right on each other.
Try this: Apply 1 layer of second surface printed transparent vinyl, then apply 1 layer of second surface printed white translucent vinyl.

This should result in more even daytime/nighttime colors, and has the bonus of having only 2 layers of vinyl, not 3.

Yes! I have been trying to get them to agree to this for a very long time. Because I did do some tests and it looked so good! the colors look the same in the day and night and you're right, less vinyl!

i think it's time to revisit this issue thanks!

 

[mwidmark]

Is this a practice you follow? If so, do you have problems with your white translucent lining up with your clear? I did a few tests a year ago and our problem was that the vinyls appeared to feed at different rates and the translucent would be an inch (give or take) longer than the clear but they were both 2mil thick materials...

thanks for your help and advice!

Interesting method. But it seems to me that your prints would end up too dark during the day, because of those 2 layers stacked right on each other.
Try this: Apply 1 layer of second surface printed transparent vinyl, then apply 1 layer of second surface printed white translucent vinyl.

This should result in more even daytime/nighttime colors, and has the bonus of having only 2 layers of vinyl, not 3.

 

[J Hill Designs]

Is this a practice you follow? If so, do you have problems with your white translucent lining up with your clear? I did a few tests a year ago and our problem was that the vinyls appeared to feed at different rates and the translucent would be an inch (give or take) longer than the clear but they were both 2mil thick materials...

thanks for your help and advice!

maybe different backing thicknesses...you may need to setup a different profile with output size compensation adjusted for one of the two media