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Trouble finding a true RED

Discussion in 'Flexi' started by Tropics09, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. Tropics09

    Tropics09 Guest

    Great news! Just had a Roland PRO4 XR640 installed yesterday! Only problem is, we need to continue the printing business, but have been unable to find a bright red. Using a few different media profiles, roland color library, and an rgb color chart and nothing looks good! Also looking for a way to dump out a little more ink because I think that may fix the problem.
    HELP!
     
  2. P Wagner

    P Wagner Very Active Member

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    I would run some tests with Roland Versaworks rather than Flexi for your RIP and see if you get better results from that RIP
     
  3. dirttoo

    dirttoo Member

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    I can't get a good red with my new Mimaki CJV either. Mimaki blames it on Flexi and offers no help.
     
  4. Asuma01

    Asuma01 Member

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    Are you guys profiling your own media? If not and you cant find a premade profile that works then you might consider buying an i1 and do it yourself.
     
  5. ChicagoGraphics

    ChicagoGraphics Major Contributor

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    Try either one of these, Y100%, M100% or Y100%, M100%, B7%
     
  6. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    +1, M100% Y100% has always been my fav.
     
  7. LFC911

    LFC911 Member

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    Do a Roland Versaworks update and try the GCVPv2 profile.
     
  8. studebaker

    studebaker Member

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    In Flexi if you choose the pantone spot color palette or the "1Shot" Enamel pallet you may find the right red. The 1Shot Palette / Swatch uses the L*A*B color space and really reproduces vivid / accurate colors.

    You other Flexi users might want to explore the 1Shot L*A*B color palettes, the black is actually BLACK! etc... Blah, blah, blah....
     
  9. Tropics09

    Tropics09 Guest

    We really pride ourselves in having good solid color quality, that most printers (in our area, at least) don't come close to. I have yet to print pure colors in versaworks without banding and spotty colors.
     
  10. Tropics09

    Tropics09 Guest

    Thanks for the tip. I'm printing on a a media profile sent to us from Oracal that matches our 3165G vinyl. All reds, even these look orange-ish.
     
  11. Terremoto

    Terremoto Member

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    For starters, do your design and layout using sRGB - that's what your RIP expects and works best with. Then try R-222 G-0 B-0. That should do the trick.

    Dan
     
  12. Tropics09

    Tropics09 Guest

    Do you suspect it is more of an issue with the media profile, instead of adjusting the color management preset? Just can't believe that the Oracal preset for our specific printer and media isn't printing a smooth, solid color. Any other favorites besides the GCVP v2?
     
  13. Tropics09

    Tropics09 Guest

    Thanks for the tip. Will try right away!
     
  14. Tropics09

    Tropics09 Guest

    Tried printing in CMYK, RGM, Lab, & spot colors on all kinds of media profiles. No luck so far. Is it possible, or would anyone recommend hiring someone to complete the printer set up with custom profiles and color chart. Can't believe how much time I'm spending to find such a simple color. My roland color library looks fantastic for EVERY color EXCEPT any shade of red. It all looks too orange
     
  15. SightLine

    SightLine Premium Subscriber

    Actually "most" RIP's internally use APPE or CPSI which are actually Adobe's print engines (Adobe PDF Print Engine and Adobe Configurable Post Script Interpreter) and the rips actually work best with Adobe RGB profile files. sRGB is not bad (CMYK is far worse) but Adobe RGB will give the widest gamut. Not sure on what the actual RIP engine is in VW but it is Adobe in FlexiSign. Also as mentioned - an i1 and making your own profiles give the best results. Part of the problem with pre-made print profiles is those are optimized for someone elses printer in the environment that printer is normally in. Average temperatures/humidity, and the individual machine play a big role in color.

     
  16. dirttoo

    dirttoo Member

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    I'm using Adobe RGB at R-255 G-0 B-0 and my Mimaki still prints orange. Isn't that as red as you can get? Would an i1 solve my problem?
     
  17. Asuma01

    Asuma01 Member

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    an i1 would solve your problem. It sounds like you need to make a custom profile to me. Creating your own profile is no joke when you are first learning though.
     
  18. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    do you have any profiles set? Is colour correction on or off?
     
  19. Terremoto

    Terremoto Member

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    Personally I use Adobe RGB but I also have a monitor that can render the Adobe RGB color space. Many monitors can't so in effect if you're using Adobe RGB on a monitor that can't render the full Adobe RGB you're basically working blind with some colors hence the suggestion to use sRGB just to be on the safe side.

    Totally agree that making your own profiles is the way to go.

    Here's something that trips up a lot of folks trying to get a grip on a color work flow. Intuition would suggest that a red defined by R255 G0 B0 would be as red as it gets - not necessarily so though. On our set-up that gives a somewhat washed out reddish orange - R222 G0 B0 gives a nice deep red and I get a nice fire red using R225 G38 B28. Counter-intuitive no?

    Something else that confuses many is that intuition would dictate that CMYK would be the way to go because the brand new shiny wide format digital printer sitting on the floor uses CMYK ink. Easy to get confused by that but the thing to remember is that it's the RIP that's doing all the heavy lifting when it comes to determining how much of each of the CMYK ink to lay down in order to get a nice red.

    Basically, linearize the printer, build your own profiles (you'll need an eye1 or something similar), design in an RGB color space and trust your RIP to do what it was designed to do.

    Dan
     
  20. SightLine

    SightLine Premium Subscriber

    Agreed and also more very good info Dan! I'd venture to guess that maybe 5% or less users on here (or in most any sign shop) has a monitor capable of anything remotely close to Adobe RGB. We are one of the few that does (we are using NEC LCD2690WUXi2 IPS monitors which do hit and are calibrated to Adobe RGB using 10 bit LUT's). What I often do though is forget that the majority do not have this sort of thing nor realize what is really involved in proper end to end profiling....
     
  21. gnatt66

    gnatt66 Active Member

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    Roland spot color library..in versaworks. pr-42k is my fave. make sure "preserve spot colors" is checked off, and print. it uses a fair amount of ink but its gorgeous.
     
  22. DIGIXTRA

    DIGIXTRA Digixtra

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    Judging from your previous posts I don't think it is a good idea for you to buy an Eye1 now. Eye1 is just a tool to build profile but you need deep knowledge on Color ICC to do it properly. Your best bet is having an expert come over and set it up for you. If you want to test the ink for red color you can rip/print your test file with NO ICC attached (iprovided you know how to turn it off in the Rip). Overall color may not look great but the printer will do exactly what you asked.
    Hope this would help
     
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