Trying to learn correctly before I run into problems!

[Signmaker1234]

I am still relatively new to large format printing, so any help would be greatly appreciated! First question is would there be any issues with printing with registration marks, 2 coats of clear shield liquid laminate, and then placing back in the printer/cutter to cut? I know this is done with film laminate and have done it, but is it ok with liquid laminate? I have done print and cut then liquid laminate and weed before it dried completely, but this option only allows for one coat of liquid laminate.

My second question is about scale and resolution. Is it ok to design at a smaller scale (1/10) for example then scale it up in the rip? I am using versaworks. I know illustrator has artboard size limits.

I need info on resolution also (like importing raster images into illustrator for printing , so any info on that would help.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ColoPrinthead]

You can cut after your liquid lam is dry, though my opinion of liquid lam is low. Yes you can design in a scale, you will have to do the math on your image resolution properly though. Typically 200 is enough resolution but you can get away with less often.

 

[Signmaker1234]

You can cut after your liquid lam is dry, though my opinion of liquid lam is low. Yes you can design in a scale, you will have to do the math on your image resolution properly though. Typically 200 is enough resolution but you can get away with less often.

Thank you!

 

[Solventinkjet]

The clear coat then cut work flow you described will work fine.

It is common to design at scale and then enlarge in the RIP with big jobs. You just have to remember to scale your DPI settings as well. So say you are designing a 10' x 20' banner and you want the final resolution to be 100dpi at full size and you design at half scale. You would need to set your DPI settings for raster images to 200dpi so that when you scale up to full size it ends up being 100dpi. This is something you should only run into with very large jobs. If you have a good enough computer, you should design a full size and dpi. Things are easier that way.

 

[Signmaker1234]

I know that I've have seen it on here before "never scale up in the rip", I can't find it though.

 

[Signmaker1234]

The clear coat then cut work flow you described will work fine.

It is common to design at scale and then enlarge in the RIP with big jobs. You just have to remember to scale your DPI settings as well. So say you are designing a 10' x 20' banner and you want the final resolution to be 100dpi at full size and you design at half scale. You would need to set your DPI settings for raster images to 200dpi so that when you scale up to full size it ends up being 100dpi. This is something you should only run into with very large jobs. If you have a good enough computer, you should design a full size and dpi. Things are easier that way.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Solventinkjet]

I know that I've have seen it on here before "never scale up in the rip", I can't find it though.

I would disagree with that. The thread you saw was probably someone who ran into one issue with it and swore it off for life.

 

[theyllek]

I would disagree with that. The thread you saw was probably someone who ran into one issue with it and swore it off for life.

I agree. I frequently have to scale things up in the RIP. Some presses have the option to scale something on press, after it's RIP'd - that isn't always the best method, but scaling in the RIP shouldn't be a problem, it's entire purpose is to process images.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

If it's a vector file created in Illustrator, then scale as large as you'd like. 10,000:1 if you want!

However, if there are any raster elements then you have to make sure that you've specified to the client that scaled down images need to have a higher resolution. You are correct, there is an artboard limit size in Illustrator. (229 inches, I believe) This means that artwork created in Illustrator for larger output MUST be scaled. Commonly at 25% or for building wraps and things of a more massive size 10%. Raster images at 300dpi should output with acceptable quality at this size, but 600 dpi would be better of course.

 

[Andy_warp]

I am still relatively new to large format printing, so any help would be greatly appreciated! First question is would there be any issues with printing with registration marks, 2 coats of clear shield liquid laminate, and then placing back in the printer/cutter to cut? I know this is done with film laminate and have done it, but is it ok with liquid laminate? I have done print and cut then liquid laminate and weed before it dried completely, but this option only allows for one coat of liquid laminate.

My second question is about scale and resolution. Is it ok to design at a smaller scale (1/10) for example then scale it up in the rip? I am using versaworks. I know illustrator has artboard size limits.

I need info on resolution also (like importing raster images into illustrator for printing , so any info on that would help.

Thanks in advance!

Be sure to work in a scale relatively close to your final output. The problem with working at 1:10 or 1:20 comes when raster effects are used in Illustrator.
(your drop shadows will look like legos unless raster effect settings are accounted for)

We typically work in quarter scale...

For a 10 foot tall by 20 foot wide banner...200 ppi is WAY WAY WAY overkill. All you are doing is adding time to your process.
Best to find your sweet spot with your printer by seeing at what resolution you start to get diminishing return.
Working in a wide or grand format 100ppi at full scale is typically sufficient.
People think adding resolution is the answer when dealing with artifacts from upsampling.

Honestly the number assigned to your resolution has less to do with it than many think.
It's the compression that kills.

Also if you can work with RGB it will keep file sizes down.

Avoid massive compression...like jpegs or lzw tifs.
A clean and appropriately sized .psd will serve you better every time.

Happy printing!

 

[Corwin Steeves]

Be sure to work in a scale relatively close to your final output. The problem with working at 1:10 or 1:20 comes when raster effects are used in Illustrator.
(your drop shadows will look like legos unless raster effect settings are accounted for)

We typically work in quarter scale...

For a 10 foot tall by 20 foot wide banner...200 ppi is WAY WAY WAY overkill. All you are doing is adding time to your process.
Best to find your sweet spot with your printer by seeing at what resolution you start to get diminishing return.
Working in a wide or grand format 100ppi at full scale is typically sufficient.
People think adding resolution is the answer when dealing with artifacts from upsampling.

Honestly the number assigned to your resolution has less to do with it than many think.
It's the compression that kills.

Also if you can work with RGB it will keep file sizes down.

Avoid massive compression...like jpegs or lzw tifs.
A clean and appropriately sized .psd will serve you better every time.

Happy printing!

I agree with this 100%, except on the PSD file recommendation. An uncompressed TIFF would my recommendation for any type of raster images or embedded raster links in an Illustrator EPS or PDF file, with the exception of instances where a transparency is needed.

I know this all must seem confusing, especially since we're using dpi and ppi. Andy is actually using the correct acronym as we are talking about file resolution. My bad. And to make it more confusing, I'm talking about scaled resolution and Andy is talking about output resolution. So for example, 300 ppi at 25% will output at 75 ppi (or dpi, as it were) 600 ppi will output at 150. You get the idea.

 

[Andy_warp]

Uncompressed tiffs can be cumbersome, IMO. The compression Photoshop uses is actually very efficient and works well with Illustrator (and lossless). Regardless of the format...great care should be taken when dealing with images within Illustrator. Be sure to place linked images...DO NOT EMBED! Sure it's a little more work in keeping multiple assets...but it will retain the original image info without downsampling or color conversions.
We like PSDs because it will retain masks within Illustrator.

Prepare your image links in Photoshop for image size/rotation/resolution. If you adjust the scale...rotate...or do any kind of transform directly in Illustrator...it will bog down. Bad.

This is because the software (Illustrator) is having to re render your preview between EVERY step. If you're dealing with a giant image or many multiple, this can be awful. You can even run out of memory and not be able to save your layout.

Do all of your image edits in the program that was designed for it. We constantly get files where a tenth of the image used is clipped out of a giant image. DON'T DO THAT!
Cropping your images down in Photoshop will help Illustrator run more quickly, and help you build nice lean production files.

A lot of people complain about ripping files that still have transparency and vector data because they can take a long time to RIP.
That's typically because of some of the issues I have brought up. Your prepress techniques and standards can help you be much more efficient.
This matters more with the large files 6 or 10 ft wide printing needs.

People will want to blame Illustrator even though they have created an Illustrator bomb!
(try ripping an "IMAGE TRACE" of a photo with 18 billion vectors!)

Here's the thing about Illustrator:
To get any good at it, you have to love it.
Almost to a masochistic level.

 

[Corwin Steeves]

Uncompressed tiffs can be cumbersome, IMO. The compression Photoshop uses is actually very efficient and works well with Illustrator (and lossless). Regardless of the format...great care should be taken when dealing with images within Illustrator. Be sure to place linked images...DO NOT EMBED! Sure it's a little more work in keeping multiple assets...but it will retain the original image info without downsampling or color conversions.
We like PSDs because it will retain masks within Illustrator.

Prepare your image links in Photoshop for image size/rotation/resolution. If you adjust the scale...rotate...or do any kind of transform directly in Illustrator...it will bog down. Bad.

This is because the software (Illustrator) is having to re render your preview between EVERY step. If you're dealing with a giant image or many multiple, this can be awful. You can even run out of memory and not be able to save your layout.

Do all of your image edits in the program that was designed for it. We constantly get files where a tenth of the image used is clipped out of a giant image. DON'T DO THAT!
Cropping your images down in Photoshop will help Illustrator run more quickly, and help you build nice lean production files.

A lot of people complain about ripping files that still have transparency and vector data because they can take a long time to RIP.
That's typically because of some of the issues I have brought up. Your prepress techniques and standards can help you be much more efficient.
This matters more with the large files 6 or 10 ft wide printing needs.

People will want to blame Illustrator even though they have created an Illustrator bomb!
(try ripping an "IMAGE TRACE" of a photo with 18 billion vectors!)

Here's the thing about Illustrator:
To get any good at it, you have to love it.
Almost to a masochistic level.

LOL! Well said! I have noticed that linked PSD files seem to work just fine, whereas in years past I remember them giving me problems at times. I guess I need to take the advice I want my bosses to take!

That said, I don't really notice any difference between unembedded and embedded images. I was under the impression that once you saved it as an EPS or PDF that they became embeded anyway, hense the reason that you only have to trasfer one file and not all of the assets.

 

[ikarasu]

LOL! Well said! I have noticed that linked PSD files seem to work just fine, whereas in years past I remember them giving me problems at times. I guess I need to take the advice I want my bosses to take!

That said, I don't really notice any difference between unembedded and embedded images. I was under the impression that once you saved it as an EPS or PDF that they became embeded anyway, hense the reason that you only have to trasfer one file and not all of the assets.

You'd be surprised how many .eps files I open up that say its missing the image even though they are imbeded. I have to make a new document, click place file and place the eps... then the image shows up. Kind of annoying, and never made sense to me... always figured it was just a glitch.

 

[Andy_warp]

LOL! Well said! I have noticed that linked PSD files seem to work just fine, whereas in years past I remember them giving me problems at times. I guess I need to take the advice I want my bosses to take!

That said, I don't really notice any difference between unembedded and embedded images. I was under the impression that once you saved it as an EPS or PDF that they became embeded anyway, hense the reason that you only have to trasfer one file and not all of the assets.

For us, the problem with a customer embedding an image is it is now unworkable. You can extract it, but conversions to your working spaces take place. Our clients rarely give us enough bleed, so we need to open externally and flip edges or whatnot. We also avoid it for the reason of having only ONE asset. If the asset is used in more than one place...edits will carry across to all instances.
Additionally, copies of an embedded image will bloat your file...instances of a placed image link require no more space.

 

[Andy_warp]

LOL! Well said! I have noticed that linked PSD files seem to work just fine, whereas in years past I remember them giving me problems at times. I guess I need to take the advice I want my bosses to take!

That said, I don't really notice any difference between unembedded and embedded images. I was under the impression that once you saved it as an EPS or PDF that they became embeded anyway, hense the reason that you only have to trasfer one file and not all of the assets.

Another reason this is important is we will link to the same asset for our proof layout as well as our final print layout. Thank we know the same image is being used for all. Then if we need to make an adjustment, it will update everything! It's a major workflow help.