Typesetting?

[mamos]

Hi All

I know and agree with the rules on font and file sharing but what about getting a couple of words needed typeset in a font I don't have and saving as a vector.

Is this allowed?

mamos

 

[RavenGraphics]

Invest in a Vector program.
Illy,Corel
or others.......
it will save you time and money in the future.

In the mean time call the Vector Doctor.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

i personally, don't have a problem with it....especially if its one of those one off jobs that you'll never use the font again....

 

[mamos]

Thanks RG

I vectorize dozens of images everyday and in order to do that I need to do them fast.

If I can get a font identified or a couple of words typeset it means I can get the logos of to my clients faster

mamos

 

[mamos]

Thanks Fenris

It is usually for a vectorization job where I need one or two words to re-draw a logo and then it is on to the next one. I may never use that font again.

mamos

 

[bob]

Thanks Fenris

It is usually for a vectorization job where I need one or two words to re-draw a logo and then it is on to the next one. I may never use that font again.

Let's see, I invest in a font file for whatever reason. Probably because I needed to set on or two words in it at one time or another. Now you expect me to let you benefit from my investment because???

If you want to be in this business, properly equip yourself. That means if you need a particular type face you don't have, you acquire same. It doesn't matter if you need one or two words set or you're setting the King James bible.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Unfortunately, what you seek is a violation of the EULA of most commercial fonts ... so it isn't permitted here. As has been mentioned already, however, this is a service that The Vector Doctor offers for a nominal fee.

 

[mamos]

Let's see, I invest in a font file for whatever reason. Probably because I needed to set on or two words in it at one time or another. Now you expect me to let you benefit from my investment because???

If you want to be in this business, properly equip yourself. That means if you need a particular type face you don't have, you acquire same. It doesn't matter if you need one or two words set or you're setting the King James bible.

Thank you for your concern Bob but if you take the time to read the post I never asked for any type setting. I have not asked you or any one else to type set any words. I simple asked if this was allowed.

Thank you Fred for a wholly more useful answer



mamos

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

Unfortunately, what you seek is a violation of the EULA of most commercial fonts ... so it isn't permitted here. As has been mentioned already, however, this is a service that The Vector Doctor offers for a nominal fee.

i don't understand this.....if it's against the EULA for one person to send a vector file free of charge, why is it okay for a different person to send a vector file for a fee....wouldn't that also be against the EULA??? since it's essentially the same thing, except that the different person is making a profit on it...

 

[Fred Weiss]

i don't understand this.....if it's against the EULA for one person to send a vector file free of charge, why is it okay for a different person to send a vector file for a fee....wouldn't that also be against the EULA??? since it's essentially the same thing, except that the different person is making a profit on it...

I don't want to get into a discussion of it here. It's a service offered by a merchant subscriber. He is willing to do it and I am not willing to expose the site to liability for permitting it.

 

[jiarby]

I went through this a few months ago... Customer sent me their own logo that some designer weenie made for them. It has a LH font (is it redundant to say LHF font?). I needed ONE word. Anyway, the customer couldn't come up with it.

I was willing to PAY a guy to send me an EPS of the word but started inquiring like the OP here. Curmudgeon Fred insists that everything is a violation of something so I exchanged 3-4 emails with the LHF people. They initially said I COULD hire a guy to layout the text, but then in a later email recanted.

Getting Eric to vectorize the text is also a violation of the EULA as it turns out. These EULAs are pretty restrictive.

If I were LHF I would open up a new revenue stream and offer this service... typesetting a word: $5. Two for $7.50. If you more than two words, then buy the font! In my case it came down to

In my situation I was making a little league sponsor banner. The LL provided me the business logo. The business had no idea what an EPS and they were too busy to mess with looking into it. I wanted to hire a guy that owned the font to lay out the word and send me an EPS. Once it is an EPS it is no longer a font, but is a collection of curves.
The LHF (& Fred's) arguement was that you could get a guy that lays out the entire alphabet and sends it to you in curves then you can lay out whatever you want. That is ridiculous to me, who is going to do that??

Regardless... as incredible as it sounds, at LHF anyway, according to the EULA... the font licensee is generally forbidden to lay out text and sell that output to a customer..even if converted to curves. Read that again slowly!

 

[Marlene]

so if you create a logo which is all type, you can't register or copywrite the logo or sell the logo? if you buy a font and type something, you can't sell that either? this doesn't make any sense, am I reading this correctly?

 

[DOGraphics]

so if you create a logo which is all type, you can't register or copywrite the logo or sell the logo? if you buy a font and type something, you can't sell that either? this doesn't make any sense, am I reading this correctly?

Ditto

I don't get it.
​

 

[The Vector Doctor]

Hmm interesting. So does that mean that any lettering in a logo is an issue? For arguments sake, lets say the font used in a logo is Times, Arial, Helvetica... any common font. Am I not allowed to convert that part of someone's logo? I can only do the graphic?

FWIW, I do maybe 1-2 typesetting jobs per month and have turned down anyone who has asked for a set of letters, numbers, and entire alphabets

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

jiarby...that's the insanity....it's not like you wanted the alphabet...you wanted a word or two....i see it as stealing if i asked for the font file....if it's a couple letters to get a small job out the door....it's not the same....now if it's a big customer, that wants an exact font....yeah, pay for the font...cause you'll be using it over and over.....

but for one offs, i just don't see the sense in spending $20+ on a font i'll never use again....


vector doc....i was by no means attacking you, or what you do....just trying to understand the whole EULA thing....

 

[bob]

...deletia...

The LHF (& Fred's) arguement was that you could get a guy that lays out the entire alphabet and sends it to you in curves then you can lay out whatever you want. That is ridiculous to me, who is going to do that??

Regardless... as incredible as it sounds, at LHF anyway, according to the EULA... the font licensee is generally forbidden to lay out text and sell that output to a customer..even if converted to curves. Read that again slowly!

This is an artifact of a copyright system that was forged before technology rendered it ridiculous.

They can huff and they can puff but, by their own rules, you're licensed to used a file filled with a specific pattern of 1's and 0's and any subset of any of that collection.

A particular collection of 1's and 0's is whatever you say it is. What if you had, say, an Excel spreadsheet that if interpreted as a jpg became bit for bit a copy of a copyrighted image? Or if interpreted as a font file was bit for bit the image of someone's proprietary typeface?

Does this mean the the proprietor of the copyrighted image or the proprietary font file has some claim to your spreadsheet? Fat chance.

Vendors of fonts, clipart, images, etc, just like audio and video producers, are desperately clinging to a outmoded copyright system designed for a world where generally only the creators of a work possessed the reproduction, duplication, and modification capabilities for that work. That the world has changed but the quaint notion of copyright has not is what leads to bizarre and nonsensical situations.

 

[Fred Weiss]

The other side of the coin is that you and your client benefit from the value provided by the creator of the font and are obligated to pay the creator his fee for it's use. From the font manufacturer's point of view, the only way to control use and earn a return on the value provided is to require a license fee. No one cares except your client and the logo owner that it is only a word or two. And they have a straightforward choice ... come up with the vectors themselves or pay you to do so.

It may make me an old curmudgeon, but I will stick up for creative rights everytime it comes into conflict with clients who don't or won't get in step with the requirements of production. As creative people, you all should to.

 

[Checkers]

If you need a font, buy it and bill it to your customer. Your cost is ZERO and the problem is solved. The bonus is you get a cool font to add to your collection.
Remember - fonts can not be copyrighted. However, their names and the programming (the order in which those 1's and 0's appear) can be. So, using the programming code for a font in a manner that is not consistent with the ELUA can lead you into trouble.

Checkers

 

[Marlene]

how did K-Mart, Walmart. Macys, X-Acto and many many more copywrite their logos that are fonts used to write the name????

 

[Rodi]

You can typeset anything. You can send to outline, it becomes art at that point. There are more issues in EULA concerning embedding of fonts ala PDFs than outlining. I have not read LHFs EULA, but if I buy the font for output but I can't sell my talent of type to it (ie outputiing) why have any fonts? If I buy a font and send it along to you for editing, that is a EULA issue in most cases, so Adobe in their "Package for Output" is your helper in you becoming a pirate. How many of you know that most licenses are for a limited number of devices, and if you send out, you can send the fonts along only if the place outputting also has a license. This is stupidity.
Common sense needs to reign

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

Exactly. We rarely run into this problem but when it does arise, a few clicks and a few bucks later and I now have that font. The internet makes it so easy to find and buy/download fonts. Build it in the job and get onto the next one.

customer shows you simple artwork....you know you've seen the font before...tell the customer, "yeah, no problem. i can do that." it's simple copy so you don't charge for setting the type......then you find out that you don't have the font...yeah, you saw it...but it was on a font site,, and the cost is $35...how do you justify that cost to the customer?? you said you could do it, and now you want to charge $35 for it??