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Upgrading from Corel 16 to 19

Discussion in 'Corel' started by Andy D, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    I'm sorry, I know this has been discussed many times, but I couldn’t find my answer in a search:

    Corel 16 isn’t hacking it anymore; everyday I seem to have more issues importing files along with other issues.
    I want to upgrade to whatever version that is the most stable and doesn’t require
    a monthly payment. I don’t care about any of the other programs by Corel, just Corel Draw…
    Unless there is a new program, I’m not aware of, that comes in the Corel Suite.

    Does Corel offer an upgrade that’s cheaper than a full install? I can’t seem to find it.
    I hear Corel 19 is good, true? I’m on windows 10.
    If anyone can link the best place to pay for and download from, I would really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  2. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    Corel 2019 was too buggy and crashed frequently compared to other versions. I liked 2017 a lot, and 2020 (the subscription) seems to have the stability back, along with some nice features added. You can't get the older versions any more.
     
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  3. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    That is going to be something that is hard to do. Most commercial programs are going this route. Depending on if it severely impacts their business, Corel may reverse course (certainly a better chance then Adobe), but I'm inclined to doubt it.

    Bare in mind, I think even in the old days of perpetual licensing, given the version gap between what you have versus what you are wanting, I don't think you would have easily gotten an upgrade pricing. I can't remember if it was x-1 or x-2 for Corel. I had one that was x-3, but it was an outlier in my experience.
     
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  4. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    If I bought a used 17 or 18 off of ebay, that would work, right?

    Are you saying 19 isn't available at all without a monthly subscription?

    What about these other $40-$50 dollar programs I have heard about? I think Apple came out with their own "illustrator", right?
    I have tried Inkscape and didn't really care for it, but I might have to jump ship.
     
  5. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    May or may not be a legit purchase, however. And by that, I mean even transfer of license to the other party is upheld by terms of the EULA (which most people don't do).


    You can, for the time being, still get regular licensed copies, but Corel had stated (of course that was to happen at the end of last year) that the Licensing was going to change (and it still may at a moments notice).

    See if they have a demo, if they do, try them out.


    I actually use Inkscape (but I'm also able to extend it myself with Python as that is one of the few languages that I know), so I'm for sure not using the default version of it. It has it's pros and it's cons for sure, for me the pros outweigh the cons, but that isn't for everyone. It does have pretty good CDR support, at least what gets sent to me, I haven't had any complaints with that functionality.
     
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  6. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    Thanks Wild Man! :)
    I wonder: if you buy the Corel 19 before they switch to subscription, they still have to support it and can't force people to switch, right?
     
  7. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Yes, they should support it for their normal support schedule (unless they have a different T&C compared to years past with one off licensing now). I do think that they had also at one time offered "upgrade protection" for those that bought the one off license. I believe Bobby had some choice thoughts on that relative to it's pricing schema.
     
  8. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    To answer the original question: no. At least not directly from Corel. They no longer sell perpetual license upgrades. They offer two options:
    1. a $249 per year subscription.
    2. $499 full version, with an option to pay $149 per year for "upgrade protection."

    Those prices are for CorelDRAW 2020. They don't sell any of the older versions directly.

    CorelDRAW 2019 was one of the worst releases in the history of that application. Avoid it at all costs.

    Version 2020 fixed some of the problems, although a number of other issues persist. I've personally encountered bugs in how CDR 2020 handles font naming tables. I have a 60 font super-family called Vito that I use in a lot of my sketches; it works properly in previous versions of CorelDRAW. In CDR 2020 none of the five bold upright weights work; they all go italic. It's one of a number of reasons why I have to run both CDR 2018 and CDR 2020 on my work computer.

    If you can find a legit copy of CorelDRAW 2018 on eBay or elsewhere get that version.

    I can't even remember which new features were introduced in CDR 2019. I just remember the application being pretty unstable. The biggest improvement in CDR 2020 was adding support for Variable Fonts. Unfortunately the implementation is not very good; on-screen rendering of the fonts as sliders are moved is very laggy or the lettering just disappears. I just end up having to type in the number for axis values like weight, width and slant. Variable fonts work far more smoothly in Adobe Illustrator.

    Corel had flat upgrade prices for CorelDRAW for a long time. You have to go back to the early 2000's or even the 1990's for when they charged different upgrade prices based on the version of the CorelDRAW license being upgraded.

    You might be thinking about Affinity Designer. It normally sells for $49.99. Serif is currently selling it and its other applications for $24.99. 50% off. I haven't tried using using Affinity Designer so I don't know what limitations it might have for sign design. Quite a few people seem to like it. However I've seen others who do print publishing work complain about limitations regarding transparency and some other technical stuff.

    There's a variety of other low cost or free vector drawing programs out there for PC, Mac and iPad platforms.
     
  9. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    I wasn't talking about a sliding upgrade pricing schema. I was talking about if you were x-1, x-2 or whatever back they allowed you could get upgrade pricing(could be the same price or different price, don't care, wasn't what I was talking about), go beyond that and you wanted to get current, had to pay the full price.

    Typically, how far back a vendor usually allowed to get upgrade pricing on depending also how many versions that they supported at the time.
     
  10. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    Corel didn't have any cut-off for upgrade eligibility. If someone had a legit yet pretty old version, such as X3 or CorelDRAW 9, that user could have still upgraded to CorelDRAW 2019 for the standard upgrade price.

    As for product support, the term "support" has some categories that need to be defined. Corel does very little if anything at all to fix bugs or other kinds of flaws in prior generations of their products. For instance Corel has washed their hands of the 2019 version of Corel; that release is as good as it's going to get. Same goes for version 2018 and on down. The Corel website has updates and patches for CorelDRAW dating back to version X5. Anyone using versions of CorelDRAW older than that should already have had their own backups of the product updates and patches. Version X3 was pretty good after all the updates were applied.

    Then there's the matter of backward compatibility between the latest version of CorelDRAW and older versions. I can't remember when it happened, but for the last couple or so CorelDRAW releases they've made it where CDR files made in CorelDRAW 5 or earlier will not import or open at all. I consider that extremely lame. Prior to that CDR files made before version 3 wouldn't open; it's been that way dating way back to the mid 1990's. By comparison the latest version of Adobe Illustrator CC can open 30+ year old files made in the very first version of Illustrator. You can save Illustrator files as far back as Illustrator 3 format. Current and recent versions of CorelDRAW save CDR files back only to version 11.
     
  11. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    That's a new one on me. Most of the other software that I have dealt with as had some type of versioning cut off. I only actually upgraded once with Adobe, but I didn't like having to install the previous version to install the upgrade (having to keep up with 2 versions), so I only did full version each time I upgrade (which was just about every new release with the exception of CS5.5. A point release should not have been a full charge.

    I have a feeling that with the latest trend to rolling release subscription based software, where a new version is rolled out every year, not much is going to be in the way of support for a previous version beyond the current. At best, even Adobe would only really support x-1 for anything as (last that I read) Adobe only allows the current 2 versions for one to use since the Dolby incident.


    It depends on the motivations of this move. I know far more expensive programs that this has even been the case for decades. Shoot, even their hobbyist program (not Corel or Ai, but another software package) which has the same file extension doesn't have the same compatibility with their commercial version and this actually extends to other functionality as well and their file formats (custom keyboard font format mainly). Think of it like Ps Elements and Ps CC, even though using the PSD format didn't accept CC PSD format even if they were both from the current version of the respective programs.

    Now, one thing that I do agree with not support legacy so much is 2 fold. One ends up with software bloat with all that extra cruft that it is in the codebase and also vectors for malware (malware, I tend to define loosely, I include anything that executes code that a user doesn't want on their system, virus, keyloggers, trojans, ads whatever, I use a broad definition). Part of the reason why Windows is such an easy target (there are others in combination with this as well) is due to all this. I mean come on, Win 10 has had vulnerabilities that date back to Win95. So yes, there are actually good reasons to rip out legacy support. In the case of individual software and legacy support, code execution, speed in which the program runs etc. So, there are reasons to not have legacy support. Primary reason why some people like Designer is that it is fairly lightweight in resource management (some of that is youth, so it naturally doesn't have a big bloated code base, if they keep up with that, that'll be better).
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  12. kheebl

    kheebl Member

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    You can buy the older Corel versions on amazon.
     
  13. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    Regarding Corel's version cut-offs for upgrades, that actually dates back to them having to match what their rivals were offering at the time 20 or more years ago. Adobe Illustrator, Freehand and some other graphics applications had flat upgrade prices; it didn't matter what version the license was. In the mid 1990's Corel did have different upgrade prices for different releases of CorelDRAW.

    Regarding file versions CorelDRAW will open or save down to, that's not something that really introduces a lot of code bloat or security issues. Generally the older versions are far more simple or even downright primitive compared to the latest versions. It's already understood some features and effects will be disregarded when a file is saved down to an earlier version. There really shouldn't be any problem opening an old version file. Here's the most fundamental thing: Corel's rivals (Illustrator in particular) do offer such support with legacy files. Heck even Flexi still lets me open old CASmate SCV files. Corel needs to step up their game and match what competitors are doing. They need to recognize long time customers will build up quite a collection of legacy art files. It's unreasonable to expect users to open and re-save all those files forward into newer version formats just to keep them usable. And it would be really ridiculous to expect users to do that every couple or so years.

    Going off topic...

    Adobe started playing around with their upgrade pricing when they went into their Creative Suite phase. People who skipped one or more product cycles were going to pay considerably more to buy a new CS package than someone upgrading from the prior release.

    As for not liking what Adobe charged to upgrade to a ".5" release, that's how I feel and then some with Corel's current setup. The latest updates to CorelDRAW are very light on new features, lacking in performance improvements and really stink of not having a fully vetted beta testing cycle. They're now charging more in a 1 year product window than what we were paying in a 2 year product cycle. And they can't really deliver the goods competently. They don't have the manpower to manage such a feat.

    IMHO CorelDRAW needs to go back to a 2 year cycle. Corel will be forced to re-think that pricing and upgrade structure. If they stick to their guns with the current policy they risk getting suicidally sandwiched. Affinity and other players are going to eat their legs out from under them in the low end. And then they're going to get torpedoed by Adobe on the high end. In our field Illustrator has some things in development that could match or surpass some of the key advantages to using CorelDRAW for sign design.

    Adobe has installers going back to the previous version (CC 2019 currently). Only the CC 2020 applications are visible in the Creative Cloud Desktop panel.

    Regarding the Adobe-Dolby dispute, nothing new appears to have happened over the past year. Dolby's own situation looks pretty hairy with the commercial movie theater industry still closed. Dolby's biggest partner in Dolby Cinema is AMC, which was on the brink of bankruptcy prior to the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic. Now it's possible AMC may be on the brink of total ruin. The home theater market is not so much better. Blu-ray and UHD disc sales have been in the toilet. 20 years ago millions of people were buying 5.1 surround systems for DVD. Today more people are buying modest sound bars for movie streaming. With those trends in mind Adobe probably doesn't care if Premiere or Audition has lossy compressed 5.1/7.1 encoding built in or not. If surround encoding is really important to someone they're going to want capabilty to encode in lossless formats. DTS still offers the best bang for the buck with that.

    Adobe really does have to step up their game with Premiere Pro in regards to speed and stability. Blackmagic Design is starting to apply some pressure on Adobe with DaVinci Resolve. Adobe is still able to leverage their graphics programs (Illustrator, Photoshop) into the mix with After Effects. But if bugs and other issues keep creeping into Premiere it's going to cause more users to really look hard at switching to DaVinci Resolve Studio.
     
  14. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    The programs still have to have legacy code, maybe even legacy API calls for some things (that's what gets Windows in trouble, those legacy APIs, 32bit code on a 64 bit system (although they are starting the removal of 32builds of Windows from any newer release of the OS, I think starting with this big one or the next one) 16bit code on 32bit systems).

    I don't necessarily hold the companies accountable to make sure my old files are serviceable, but I also had programs that didn't allow backward compatibility for decades now (going on 26 yrs now for one, it may have been longer, but that's when I started using them at my mom's shop). It's their product to do with how they choose, not saying that I agree with some of those things, but it's ultimately their product. The market will determine if they make it or not.

    Part of API issue is that major API changes more often then not come with file handling (as in using older files) breakage issues. Have to change with the times or the times change you.

    This was always a possible downside to rolling release, subscription based software.

    While Corel is the one that has the most troubles as of late, I think all should go back to that. Rolling release software is not really suitable for enterprise use. It really isn't. Even if there is never a lick of trouble, that potential for it is much greater then more of the LTS releases.


    I have a feeling that more are going to go with streaming in the long run. Between the politics that is coming in movies, this illness issue (now if there isn't a major and I mean major, uptick in diagnosed cases, some areas may lax more then they should given what has been going on) and so on. People are getting out of the habit of going to the movies (plus quality of movies have been lacking more often then not, it's not the same as when I was growing up) and I don't think for AMC it helped that they even furloughed the CEO during the height of the pandemic. That's never a good sign.


    I really liked Pr, at least the cS6 version of it. When I was first starting the move to different platform, I still had it in a VM and was still able to edit video projects in a VM without GPU passthrough. After Effects, I never used. Natron yes, Ae, no. I've never messed with DaVinci, but I do like their panels.





    To the OP, I would probably go with 20 instead of 19 if going to go the Corel route and get the full version. If you are going to do it, may as well do it for the latest version (especially if it improved stability over 19) and if it's going on a Win 10 computer that is connected to the internet, more then likely will also survive quite a few updates as well. If still sticking with legacy systems, always run that risk that the latest Windows update will bork an install. It may never, but that's what I would always be afraid of.

    I've never been one to go the pre-owned route or even the outrageously cheaper new route either. I'm just not that trusting that it's on the up and up. Especially if it was coming from Ebay. But that's just me.
     
  15. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    I looked, and although they have them listed, it says "this product is no longer available" on every one of them.
     
  16. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    If you call Corel they can authorize a purchase of on older version. I has 2018 on my PC, and needed to upgrade the production machines to match, however 2019 had already been released. I called Corel and explained that I wanted all computers to be running the same version, they let me buy a licence for 2018 and sent me a download link.

    Might be worth a shot.
     
  17. Project Sign

    Project Sign New Member

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    X5 is best, Corel got too bloated after that! Its very stable
     
  18. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    In the graphics industry it is extremely mission critical for people to be able to use and re-use the assets they created in those graphics programs. If a developer wants to cop an attitude and make a new version of its software cut off file open/import operation to older files then the developer deserves 100% of the wrath they will incur from their customers.

    It would be only freakishly stupid for anyone who develops graphics software to expect users to essentially throw away their project files and create everything new from scratch. Apple found out about that one the hard way with the fiasco they unleashed with Final Cut X. The anger from the professional video community was monumental. That goof literally opened the door for Adobe Premiere Pro to take over much of the market. Some users switched to Premiere just to be able to import and re-use elements of their Final Cut 7 projects because they couldn't do so in FCP X. Final Cut is no longer the dominant NLE for professional video production.

    As a user and paying customer I really don't care about legacy API calls or whatever for a program to be able to open or import a legacy art file. Corel's competitors are getting the done. Corel needs to step up and match what their competition is doing.

    The movie industry will turn into a mere shadow of its former self if commercial movie theaters disappear. The theatrical release platform is literally what makes it possible for a movie studio to spend $100-$200 million on a major movie production and another $100 million in marketing for that movie. No movie studio anywhere is ever going to blow that kind of money on a 2 hour movie made only to watch at home on TV.

    Just look at how many "big" movies have been released while the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic has had theaters closed. Hardly any at all. Of the movies currently being released direct to streaming they're all modest sized releases. I'm kind of interested in watching The King of Staten Island. But I'm sure not going to pay $20 to watch it on my TV set. I'll probably just wait until it shows up on Netflix or whatever.

    Some production companies and streaming services are putting a good amount of money into the content they're producing just for streaming services. But the vast majority of those shows are in a TV series format. In terms of production cost per hour of finished content, they're spending far less than that of theatrical releases.

    If movie theaters disappear their loss will affect more than just the movie industry. Movie theaters are a cornerstone part of the "out of home" life style in the US. Going to dinner and a movie is an American pastime. Movie theaters are often anchor tenants in retail, dining and entertainment developments. Even the sign industry relies on these businesses. We rely on brick and mortar businesses for our income. We don't sell signs to businesses who do all their commerce online.
     
  19. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    That is mission critical no matter what industry you are talking about. But here is the problem, things get cut out all of the time and people have to deal with it, even functionality that exists in those older versions (Flash users were not happy about the how Adobe handle updating after the Dolby incident as the newer versions did not have functions that their older files had from previous versions of Flash, but yet they were forced to update to newer versions), it happens all the time. This isn't a new thing. Some functionality (like with Dolby) could be based on 3rd party licensed code (or services such as "NetFonts") that could go bye bye at short notice. This also may have been functionality that has existed for quite a few iterations that is now just all of a sudden pulled.

    Now, did Corel really cop an attitude and castrate functionality, or was it because how they implemented something that they had to castrate functionality? Those are 2 significantly different scenarios. I'm not up on that, could you link to something where they were flat out shining on the customers?


    How do you handle it when functionality that you were once dependent on for files that was eventually pulled? This stuff happens all the time that may cause files to partially or totally be redone. It happens, to think that it would never happen is, in my mind, a dangerous mentality to have.


    You should, I know I do as a user and paying customer (yes even though my main current platform is free, that doesn't mean I only run free software on it, even software that may also be open source and erroneously thought of as always being free as in beer does still cost). Let's forget about the security implications of such apathy. What happens if Windows (or any platform really) decides to pull those APIs or even change those APIs and how things are handled, the UX goes to hell. Functionality and stability goes right out the window. This is what happened to sound on Windows from Vista on and that affected DAWs and hardware as well, because sound no longer had direct access to the kernel, no matter how good your hardware/software was/is you still had that layer between. DAW and hardware vendors had to change their code to match this new way of doing things on the Windows platform.

    They have every right to do what they want to do and how they want to do it. Just like you have every right to go somewhere else if you don't like the direction that they are going in (very much easier said then done, I know this more then most that would just say that).

    If you truly believe that Corel needs to do exactly what their competition is doing, then they need to match not only feature for feature, but how the workflow for said feature is. I mean, where does it stop. Are we all supposed to match exactly what our competition is doing as well?


    They either survive or they don't. The downside if they go away, you are having to start over from scratch no matter what if you need those files that are from that particular software. Just like Dolby is no longer integrated into Adobe, have to get it from somewhere else and more then likely with a different workflow.

    This is why I do not like being tied to a particular vendor and I'll cut loose of my current platform and software if need be as well down the line. That's really where users need to be at as well, because you know what, if vendors realize that customers are willing to cut and run (regardless of how easy it is for them to do so), that's probably going to help keep them more on task of what their users want. But if they still believe in the power of vendor lockin and one is still paying for that latest version regardless if they are complaining about it, I don't think they are going to listen too well, at least not for awhile.





    It's been on the decline for a long while. A lot more recently within the last 5-6 yrs, but it's not what it used to be. I actually even have problems with Netflix for editing my childhood classics.





    Change in generation attitudes have started that ball rolling for quite awhile. Dinner and a movie? Most of the younger generation, it's fast casual dinner and movie, just pick it up and go. I stopped going to the traditional eateries when they tried to capture that younger crowd, but ended up having a confused menu. That's going to be the plight of quite a few people that are of a different generation then the one that is the target audience. It happens. Movies have changed their attitudes to fit with that younger generation as well, chasing those younger dollars. I've pulled out of going to those (and we used to go to the movies 2-3 times a week), we used to eat out damn near 6 days a week.

    I think most of us depend on brick and mortar businesses for income. There are still some brick and mortar business that will be around, but even then, one has to change with the times in order to survive. Either change with the times or the times change you.


    I started doing what I'm doing young, I was 14 at the time. 3rd generation, I will do this, in whole or in part, as long as it appears that I can support my family with it, but with all that's going on, changes in attitudes (no changes in latitudes I'm afraid), I'm working on other stuff though. I don't know if I'll try to steer my kids in this direction. I had enjoyed the idea of them being the 4th generation earlier on, but I don't think that would be a good call. Always have a plan B and plan C just to make sure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  20. ams

    ams Very Active Member

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    18 is the best stable version. I've heard countless problems with 2019
     
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