Upgrading from Corel 16 to 19

[Bobby H]

18 is the best stable version. I've heard countless problems with 2019

CorelDRAW 2018 is the main version I use at work, despite have CDR 2020 installed on the same machine.

That is mission critical no matter what industry you are talking about. But here is the problem, things get cut out all of the time and people have to deal with it, even functionality that exists in those older versions

No. It doesn't really happen all the time. Once again I will stress the point various competitors of Corel do allow customers to open files made all the way back to the very first versions. Adobe Illustrator CC 2020 will open AI files made in 30 year old copies of Illustrator. The same goes for Photoshop.

Honestly I can't think of any other graphics programs off hand that cuts off file open/import operations for their own native files at a certain version. The situation with Corel appears to be more unique.

The dig at Adobe with its "NetFonts" doesn't really work. Missing fonts won't disable a user's ability to open an existing file. Users of TypeKit, now known as Adobe Fonts, knew up front the potential drawbacks and trade-offs of using that service. Adobe has at least given users advance notice when certain fonts are going to be pulled so they could adjust accordingly. Font Bureau's stuff is leaving June 15; they're offering Adobe users discounts on fonts hosted by the service for a limited time.

The comparisons with Adobe and their dispute with Dolby don't really wash either. It's a completely different issue over the basics of just being able to open or import an archive file. The Dolby Digital encoding functions were a licensed third party add-on not all that much different from a third party plug-in. The DD encoding capability isn't something that will break a user's ability to open an existing Premiere or Audition project. You can still create discrete surround mixes in either application. Any home theater setup with HDMI-based connections will play uncompressed LPCM 5.1 or 7.1 mixes.

And if a user needs lossy Dolby Digital encoding he still has other options like the ones sold by SurCode, Dolby and DTS. The standard these days is lossless surround encoding. There is no free/cheap way to do lossless surround encoding in any video production setup. At least for Blu-ray the DTS Master Audio format is king there. The DTS Master Audio suite costs less than Dolby's offerings, has more bells and whistles to it and works on both Windows and Mac platforms (Dolby's stuff is typically Mac-only).

They have every right to do what they want to do and how they want to do it. Just like you have every right to go somewhere else if you don't like the direction that they are going in (very much easier said then done, I know this more then most that would just say that).

All it takes is for a competitor to create a file import filter that works good enough to be usable. That can allow people to migrate from using one application to another. Adobe made a work-able Final Cut filter for Premiere Pro which allowed a lot of FCP users who upgraded to FCP X to be able to access their old projects and transition over to Premiere.

Given the direction Corel is headed I'm doing more and more of my work in Adobe Illustrator as a kind of insurance policy. I do see a possible scenario of Corel going bust.

I think most of us depend on brick and mortar businesses for income. There are still some brick and mortar business that will be around, but even then, one has to change with the times in order to survive. Either change with the times or the times change you.

If brick and mortar businesses fail and everything moves online the paradigm shift will wreck the living $#1+ out of the broader economy. Most online businesses thrive on killing jobs, not creating them. The sign industry would be devastated if most kinds of brick and mortar business moved online. In such a scenario there would be no reason for this sign industry forum to exist.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

CorelDRAW 2018 is the main version I use at work, despite have CDR 2020 installed on the same machine.

You still paid for the latest version, regardless if that's your main usage one.

No. It doesn't really happen all the time. Once again I will stress the point various competitors of Corel do allow customers to open files made all the way back to the very first versions. Adobe Illustrator CC 2020 will open AI files made in 30 year old copies of Illustrator. The same goes for Photoshop.

Substance Painter has their issues. Blender has their issues. Krita has their issues. Maya has their issues. Wilcom (which is specific to me and the other embroiders in here (I know of at least 4 that use this software that are in this forum (or at least used to be)) also only allows so far back as well.

Serif has also told customers with some of their products no backward compatibility. Publisher program being one that really comes to mind with this issue. Serif is a competitor with Adobe products and since Wilcom comes bundled with Corel Draw (only reason why I had copies of DRAW), I would include it as a competitor, because it gets people on DRAW instead of Ai (of course, I actually did/do prefer Ai to DRAW, but I digress) one of which is now an Adobe product (Substance), but there are in some form/fashion in the graphics field. Some are more 3D, but Adobe is getting in that space as well (with Substance Painter especially and then they have that asset importing program, can't think of the name right off hand).

That's six programs there that have some part an issue with backward file compatibility, 4 of which are commercial programs. Nowhere near an exhaustive list, but to show that Corel itself isn't unique in file backward compatibility issue in some form, capacity.

The dig at Adobe with its "NetFonts" doesn't really work. Missing fonts won't disable a user's ability to open an existing file. Users of TypeKit, now known as Adobe Fonts, knew up front the potential drawbacks and trade-offs of using that service. Adobe has at least given users advance notice when certain fonts are going to be pulled so they could adjust accordingly. Font Bureau's stuff is leaving June 15; they're offering Adobe users discounts on fonts hosted by the service for a limited time.

If users aren't in the habit of converted fonts to outlines/curves, it may affect how well things open. I've gotten wonky results with files that supposedly maintained PDF compatibility as well. It may not disable, but it definitely hinders file importing.

The comparisons with Adobe and their dispute with Dolby don't really wash either. It's a completely different issue over the basics of just being able to open or import an archive file.

Try opening those files that make calls to that missing 3rd party licensed code blob. Those things are more then likely going to be broken, unless there is a fallback call to something else that is still there.

All it takes is for a competitor to create a file import filter that works good enough to be usable.

You are wanting for something that will probably not happen easily, even with the specs of the files supposedly known (have to remember Adobe put on those specs sheets that it is in no way inclusive of everything and they are under no obligation to keep it up to date). Importing Ai files in 3rd party programs (especially with full editing capabilities) seems to be very much hit or miss (unless they somehow licensed that ability from Adobe).

If brick and mortar businesses fail and everything moves online the paradigm shift will wreck the living $#1+ out of the broader economy. Most online businesses thrive on killing jobs, not creating them. The sign industry would be devastated if most kinds of brick and mortar business moved online. In such a scenario there would be no reason for this sign industry forum to exist.

I don't see everything going online. Even in today's time and concerns there are still things that people would prefer to do in person. Might have less options, but unless certain things change, I don't see everything going that way.

 

[Bobby H]

You still paid for the latest version, regardless if that's your main usage one.

I wasn't responding to you regarding my comment to ams about using CDR 2018 more despite having CDR 2020. With that being said, CDR 2020 still has some serious bugs. Plenty of users are angry about it, which is very easy to see in the Corel user forums.

That's six programs there that have some part an issue with backward file compatibility, 4 of which are commercial programs. Nowhere near an exhaustive list, but to show that Corel itself isn't unique in file backward compatibility issue in some form, capacity.

All your examples are niche programs, not mainstream graphics software. And in the case of Maya, it is possible to open/import files from earlier copies of Maya into the latest version. There's even work-arounds to saving down to earlier versions. Maya is also able to import assets from a variety of other 3D formats. Again, I don't call Maya "mainstream" software. That's in a very high priced niche.

Adobe is Corel's main rival. They're not cutting users off from any of their existing art files no matter how old they are. Other programs I've used in the past, such as Freehand or Deneba Canvas didn't have issues opening old files. Most sign industry software respects old art files. I said it before about Flexi being able to open old Flexi files as well as ancient CASmate SCV files.

Try opening those files that make calls to that missing 3rd party licensed code blob. Those things are more then likely going to be broken, unless there is a fallback call to something else that is still there.

That has nothing to do with the Adobe-Dolby dispute. Again, the removed Dolby Digital encoding functions do nothing to affect existing Premiere or Audition projects. Lossy 5.1/7.1 encoding is something that is only done when you're finished with the project and are going to author it to something like a DVD disc layout.

Anyone who relies on application specific plug-ins for certain kinds of visual functions and effects has to be aware going in about the pitfalls when they create their designs/content. If the artwork is going to be opened on another computer that doesn't have all the same plug-ins, fonts, etc installed then obviously the user has to take steps to make the artwork more "portable." The same goes for archival purposes or saving down to earlier versions. These issues are comparatively minor compared to the host application cutting off all file open/import support for files made in an old version of the application.

I don't see everything going online. Even in today's time and concerns there are still things that people would prefer to do in person. Might have less options, but unless certain things change, I don't see everything going that way.

If enough kinds of businesses go to online only it will put many sign companies out of business, along with a lot of other businesses.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

All your examples are niche programs, not mainstream graphics software.

Not really. Serif is a direct competitor to Adobe, especially with their Designer program. I think a few on here have gone to it versus the others. That Publisher is an alternative to InDesign if I recall correctly. These are probably the most mainstream suite of programs. Now, I know cheap(er)/free programs are looked down upon, but they are increasing in popularity.

Krita (wrongly labeled in my mind) is usually listed against Ps. I don't agree with that, it's more of a Corel Painter alternative.

And in the case of Maya, it is possible to open/import files from earlier copies of Maya into the latest version.

All of the ones that I mentioned had some type of issue with backward compatibility, some were in total messes, some as you mentioned had work arounds.

There's even work-arounds to saving down to earlier versions.

You know, you struck me as a no workaround period type of person. It either worked and worked right out of the box or it wasn't any account. But I was just speculating on that based on our conversations.

Adobe is Corel's main rival. They're not cutting users off from any of their existing art files no matter how old they are. Other programs I've used in the past, such as Freehand or Deneba Canvas didn't have issues opening old files. Most sign industry software respects old art files. I said it before about Flexi being able to open old Flexi files as well as ancient CASmate SCV files.

I forgot about Freehand. Speaking of Freehand, there you have one that just went bye bye due to Adobe gobbling them up. This is actually something that I worry about Substance Painter. Not that it will disappear totally like Freehand, but Linux support in total. Still there and maybe it has enough support in the Linux community for them to keep it, but that's a concern of mine and I'm ready to go to ArmourPaint at a moments notice (open source, but have to pay for a compiled binary, I don't know if it's in the AUR though, that may be a way to get it free, but that comes at a risk).

Anyone who relies on application specific plug-ins for certain kinds of visual functions and effects has to be aware going in about the pitfalls when they create their designs/content. If the artwork is going to be opened on another computer that doesn't have all the same plug-ins, fonts, etc installed then obviously the user has to take steps to make the artwork more "portable." []quote]

And yet why does experience dictate otherwise? I have had, in my experience, for worse files sent to be, by blue chip houses and still they don't do it. That just blows my mind that it is still done rampantly. At least in my experience, your mileage may vary.

The same goes for archival purposes or saving down to earlier versions. These issues are comparatively minor compared to the host application cutting off all file open/import support for files made in an old version of the application.

It all depends. If there is a major API change in the program, or even a rewrite, things do happen and keeping that older functionality becomes dubious, especially if they are trying to modernize their code for the latest best practices as well.

If enough kinds of businesses go to online only it will put many sign companies out of business, along with a lot of other businesses.

It will put mine out as well, I have other fears in this current climate as well, but I digress on that part. Always have to have a pack up plan, that's just my thought on it. I hate to have to change, but I have that plan if need be as well. This is a time where people should be re-evaluating and see about getting 'leaner' etc.

 

[Bobby H]

Not really. Serif is a direct competitor to Adobe, especially with their Designer program.

Affinity Designer is really not an equal to Adobe Illustrator, at least not yet anyway. Designer is fairly rudimentary by comparison. It's a low cost alternative ($49.99 normally, $24.99 on sale) that's probably acceptable to beginners, amateurs and hobbyists. It's going to need at least a few more versions worth of improvements to gain more appeal from professional users.

Aside from that issue I can't seem to find anything online in any of Affinity's documentation or their discussion boards that suggest a current version of Designer cannot open files made in older versions of the application.

The main "want" I come across relating to that issue is users expecting an old version of Affinity Designer to open files saved in a newer version, which is something very few applications do. Photoshop is the only one that comes to mind (and you have to remember to make sure that compatibility option in the save dialog box is checked).

You know, you struck me as a no workaround period type of person. It either worked and worked right out of the box or it wasn't any account. But I was just speculating on that based on our conversations.

I don't like buggy software not ready for prime time. Just being able to open archived files saved in an old version is a far more basic requirement.

The work-arounds possible for Maya in that regard are not great, but at least the users aren't completely cut off from their older files and assets.

CorelDRAW offers nothing for work-arounds to access files made prior to version 6 in CorelDRAW 2020 and the past couple or so versions of CorelDRAW. I don't know exactly when the stupid decision was made to cut off Version 5 and older CDR files. The only work-arounds are importing the artwork in another application (such as Inkscape) or installing an old enough version of CorelDRAW that will access those files. That could be a problem with a Windows 10 PC; CorelDRAW will install only so many versions back under Win 10. It would be a bigger pain to install a virtual machine running an older version of Windows just to install an old enough version of CorelDRAW. God forbid anyone have CorelDRAW files made in version 1 or 2 of that program; IIRC only CDR 3 can open those files.

Speaking of Freehand, there you have one that just went bye bye due to Adobe gobbling them up. This is actually something that I worry about Substance Painter. Not that it will disappear totally like Freehand, but Linux support in total.

Freehand was pretty much on its death bed by the time Adobe acquired Macromedia in 2005. There were still some die hard users loyal to the application, but most had migrated to Illustrator by then.

In the late 1990's Macromedia's focus had turned to web-oriented applications like Flash, Fireworks and Dreamweaver. Even within Freehand more focus had been shifted to web graphics output and output to Flash. The buggy release of Freehand 10 in 2001 is pretty much what sealed that app's fate. Freehand 11, aka "MX" fixed many of the problems with FH10, but it seemed a bit too little too late.

Adding more insult to injury the Adobe branded version of Freehand was just a packaging change of Freehand MX. When Adobe discontinued Freehand it certainly angered any remaining Freehand users. To me it felt a little like what Macromedia did with Fontographer when they bought Altsys after the Altsys-Aldus partnership broke apart. They let Fontographer languish. FontLab Ltd eventually acquired Fontographer and revived it as a more simple and lower cost alternative to FontLab. They even updated it. Freehand was far more of a credible rival to Illustrator, so Adobe simply discontinued it. And then for good measure they eventually removed FH file import functions from Illustrator.

Corel's more recent missteps with CorelDRAW 2019 and other head-scratching decisions they've made seem eerily similar to what Macromedia did with Freehand 20 years ago.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Aside from that issue I can't seem to find anything online in any of Affinity's documentation or their discussion boards that suggest a current version of Designer cannot open files made in older versions of the application.

I didn't say Designer.

Serif has also told customers with some of their products no backward compatibility. Publisher program being one that really comes to mind with this issue.