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Use permits for welding and painting?

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by Signsforwhile, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. Signsforwhile

    Signsforwhile Very Active Member

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    Quick back story.

    We are in a bottom floor of a building. Upstairs there is a frame shop (art, art supplies etc). Almost 2 years ago the entire building was purchase by a body shop. The body shop kept up downstairs but moved us to one side and occupied the rest. (About 75% of the bottom floor). As soon as the body shop moved in the owner of the frame store started calling the EPA and county enviro agencies to do air quality test saying that the two of us were trying to kill her. That fumes were entering her space and giving everyone headaches and tumors. As far as what the body shop does I'm sure you all know. They have a spray booth, but do bondo work and welding outside of that.

    We weld quite a bit. Our production area is about 60'x25' with one 10'x12' garage door. 90% of painting we do is water based, from primer to top coat. Every once in a while we do use a solvent based paint that is sprayed on our shop floor with the door open.

    The woman upstairs is through with the body shop. They've been inspected up and down. The landlord notified me today that we're next. He received a letter from their lawyer stating that if we don't stop producting fumes that they are going to look up our skirt. Now I'm not even sure where to start. I guess I have questions, and if anyone is from new york it helps too.

    How large of a piece do you need to be painting to be required to have a spray booth?

    What types of permits or regualtions are there for welding? I'm searching and not coming up with anything.

    Is cutting plastic regulated? When we cut out acrylic faces she calls to complain because of the smell of cut plastic.

    I'm sh*ttin my britches slighty because something as simple as a couple of cans of spray paint sitting on our shelves has been pointed out to be illegal and needs to be in a self closing cabinet.

    And I just want to say that I'm not a fly by night, money over safety kind of shop. I'm a stickly for ear eye and breathing safety equipment. In my bucket without a harness? Ur fired....
     
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  2. Signsforwhile

    Signsforwhile Very Active Member

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    PS: The upstairs tenant is leaning towards wacko. On numerous occasions she has sat in the window, waited for the body shop to start a tow truck and timed it. After 5 minutes (new york state idle law) she calls the police to tell them there is a truck idling over 5 minutes.
     
  3. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    One thing would be to go 100% water based paints if at all possible. Takes care of the fume and fire aspect. But truthfully if the body shop was o.k. you should not have any trouble. Think about it. I think she just has an axe to grind. Many people think they can cause trouble with no repercussions. Time to get pro-active and get independent analysis done along with calling your attorney.

    We run a home based business and had an unholy amount of trouble with a neighbor. The city inspector finally told him to lay off, but it didn't work. He kept it up until I had my attorney give him the talk.
     
  4. Mark Fair

    Mark Fair Member

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    Question about Super Sprint

    I am having a few problems with my super sprint and was wondering if you could help me.
    here is the problem,
    When I turn the power on to the machine, sometimes it does a head crash with the knife head. It doesn't seem to find it's homing position. after several tries to reboot it works eventually.
    I have cleaned the little optical disc in the motor housing at the back.
    After a while it finally beeps and I can plot.
    Any ideas would be much appreciated.
    It still works eventually but sometime it takes several tries.
     
  5. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    holy thread pirate batman!

    :thread

     
  6. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Not up on New York’s codes, but down here to be 100% legal and copasetic with your insurance company, if you are doing ANY kind of spraying be it water based or solvent…. You need to have a spray booth and one that is U/L approved. In other words, explosive-proof lights, electrical sockets and anything else which could possibly catch fire from fumes. Your insurance company should already have that in place for you, because if they don’t and your company tried to get lower premiums by stretching the truth…. Should something happen…. like this, you’re gonna be on your own.

    So, first of all, are you in a light industry or manufacturing zone which can legally do this sort of thing. If you’re just commercial, that usually doesn’t cut it.

    All paint must be kept within an explosive-proof room, like a closet made of cement blocks with proper electrical service and lights with a legal exhaust system in place to allow fumes to escape without harming the environment let alone people, ot to mention a water filtering system is best for your spray booth, also.

    Spraying solvent with a door open is about as illegal as you can get around here.

    Do you have eye wash fountains and first aid kits around ??
     
  7. Mike F

    Mike F Active Member

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    To add on to the eye wash and first aid thing, If you don't already have them, you might want to get MSDS sheets for all the products you use, and I mean all of them. The inspectors are most likely going to ask for them. If an accident were to occur you need to have these handy for poison control / the fire department / EMS / etc. so that they know exactly what they're dealing with. Get a few 3 ring binders and print out a few copies of each and scatter them throughout your shop where they're visible, like in a bin on a wall or something like that.
     
  8. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    By the sounds of it, the art store is in the wrong type of building, sounds like she should be operating out of a retail/commercial unit, not a light industrial unit (which i'm assuming you would be with a body shop operating on site)

    Sounds like an easy fix though, if the body shop owns the building, he can choose not to renew the lease of the art store.
     
  9. Maxphobia

    Maxphobia Member

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    Call a local fire dept. ask them what their safety codes are and if they have an inspector that can come by and take a look at your place. Have it all brought up to code then have said inspector back along with your attorney and have him sign a paper saying that he's inspected and everything is up to code. Next time she compains give her said paper if she still keeps at it have your attorney have a talk with her about how her complants are costing you time to work on projects in effect costing not only you the police money and if it happends again you will have no choice but to presue legal action.
     
  10. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

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    If the Body shop owns the building why don't they just kick her out. I know you can't just do that but I would be raisng the rent so high she leaves.
     
  11. ICeMAnAbk

    ICeMAnAbk Member

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    Everytime she makes wild accusations, LOG IT.... meaning do this...

    Time/Date.
    What her name is
    what she complained of or threatened.
    Who witnessed this said.
    Where it happened
    In your cause, write down what you guys were doing, and the fact is' UV or Eco friendly.

    I had issues with much higher ranking people in the military in the middle east, and they were some very crooked guys. I had to do this with a little black book. It holds water, and if it ever goes to court, it's a prosocutor's wet dream if you decide to go after her to shut her up. In my cause, it ended 4/5 20+yr careers of majorly crooked individuals that were abusing people under there command in many ways and falsifying paperwork to help their buddies get decorated.

    This works civilian side too. A handy book in your back pocket can be a major weapon. I would in your cause. This tenant sounds like a ******* nutcase. Though, The time I lived in NY/NJ a******s like this are abundant. For your sake, keep it written down, and especially if she's calling the cops all the time. They like to see that someone calls cops excessivly over small things. They'll eventually tell her to stop or they'll charge her for false claims.

    Worth it!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2012
  12. Signsforwhile

    Signsforwhile Very Active Member

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    not being allowed to spray isnt the end of the world. a majority of the stuff we do can be rolled (prepping sheets for carving mainly).

    the welding issue slightly concerns me. i've been looking through epa regulations and all they list is to minimize the vapor production by using shielding gasses, which we do.

    will be buying a cabinet to store paint and chemicals over the weekend.

    i have a fire chief friend coming in give me a once over to let me know what sticks out.

    the tenant is a wacko. but from a landlords perspective i can understand. she must have atleast $5k a month in rent, so to just kick someone out, in a terrible economy isnt an easy decision either.
     
  13. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Just make sure your cabinet is a certified paint cabinet and U/L approved for storing the types of paints which will be in it..... all paints.

    I would not really be inclined to accept what your friend the Fire Marshal might say. Use it more as a guide and then get your insurance company's stamp of approval. It has to be in writing and your insurance company has to accept it. The Fire people are more worried about fire extinguishers, placement and escape routes more than legal problems.

    Again, how is your building zoned ?? Commercial, light industry, industrial..... ?? That's what will determine your rulings/codes. Right now, most of these posts are just guesses.
     
  14. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

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    the shop next to ours is an auto body shop and it used to be so horrid that we couldn't open a window. even with them shut it still was nasty. they now use all water based paint. it still stinks, but at least the stink isn't killing us. I'm sorry, but I feel her pain. on the other hand, when you have a shop in an industrial area, she shouldn't be shocked that it doesn't smell very good and that there may be some toxic fumes being vented.
     
  15. SignManiac

    SignManiac Major Contributor

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    All good info. I just ordered a professional paint booth which should be here any day. 9'x14'x26'. UL legal and all. And putting in a Matthews mixing station. Plan to store the stuff in metal cabinets, etc. Industrial zoned property so don't expect any real problems.

    A pain in the butt, but nice not driving five miles each way to Home Depot all the time :)
     
  16. royster13

    royster13 Very Active Member

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    Getting her kicked out will just make her mad....And even if she is not a tenant she can still get on the case of the authorities.....
     
  17. SignManiac

    SignManiac Major Contributor

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    Make her sign a new lease that prohibits bittching.
     
  18. Signsforwhile

    Signsforwhile Very Active Member

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    not to pry, whats the budgest on that setup.
     
  19. anotherdog

    anotherdog Very Active Member

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    in the end this will cost more than a couple of months without the 5K in rent.

    can you simply give her something either to go away or to shut up?
     
  20. MikeD

    MikeD Active Member

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    If you get audited in any way, you could just bite the bullet and comply; that way, you will know for certain that you and your employees are safe.
    http://www.trs-environmental.com
    TRS Environmental will rent you devices that help figure out if there is a problem; some higher end sensors will actually tell you what chemicals are contaminating your environment.
    Sorry your having trouble with the other tenant...Good Luck!
     

 


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