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vinyl for outdoor use

Discussion in 'Vinyl' started by IGD, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. IGD

    IGD Member

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    newbie here, was wondering if oracle 651 is sufficient enough to use on vehicle lettering, magnets, ect?
     
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  2. CP Signs

    CP Signs Member

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    I use the 951. More expensive but gives me piece of mind.
     
  3. IGD

    IGD Member

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    thanks for the fast reply, reason im asking is that im just starting out and i have about 12 rolls i dont want to waist...
     
  4. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Some years back there was far more difference between calendared and cast vinyl. Today not so much.

    Cast is inherently more friendly to curves but for a simple curved door or window, they're pretty much functionally the same. I'm sure that this will bring cries of outraged protest from the teeming masses but for flat to simple curves the only real difference is the 651 is rated for 6 years, the 751 for 8 [i think], and I have no idea what 951 might be rated. 6 years is merely a rating, how long it actually lasts, from a few years to a really long time depends of a lot of things, not just the manufacturer's rating.
     
  5. IGD

    IGD Member

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    to me it seems like a pretty good vinyl, that gives me a little more confidence in atleast using these rolls up, maybe my next order im gonna go up to cast just for piece of mind, the input was very much appreciated
     
  6. jsmoritz2000

    jsmoritz2000 Very Active Member

    Oracal is great vinyl. This is the way I look at it. We use 651 for flat smooth surfaces or simple curves but primarily for window graphics. It can be used for vehicle graphics on the same type of surfaces but is and always will be second to cast. We typically use 651 for production of car magnets, as well as large runs of die cut window decals. We use it for signage on 5 year or less substrates such as painted MDO or overlayed plywood.

    We use 751 cast for window graphics on complex curves and for most all automotive applications where additional conformability to rivets and contours isn't a requirement. We also use it for signage on most substrates.

    We use 951 cast when we need a cast metallic or when we need a vinyl with additional conformability to rivets and contours. We also use it for high end signage on long term substrates such as new vehicles and prefinished metals.

    We use RTape Conform application tape with all 3 types of vinyl.

    These are just my guidelines. Others may have different opinions.
     
  7. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    Being in Florida, I would point out that the advice given thus far is from members who aren't located in places as sunny and hot as is Houston or South Florida. IMHO, using that 651 on vehicles runs a high change of costing you repeat business down the line. My recommendation would be to use it up on most anything that comes you way EXCEPT vehicles and jobs expected to last more than two to three years ... which is what you'll see more often than not with 651 in South Texas.
     
  8. IGD

    IGD Member

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    thanks for breaking it down for me, that explains alot. Right now ive been doing mostly small vehicle decals, and no not copywrite logos or anything, vehicle magnets and small signs and ive been using 651. i know this may be a dumb question, but i also got a pack of greenstar vinyl and it looks very cheap, so i havnt used any of that what so ever. My question is can i use that greenstar vinyl for anything? or do i just chunk it cause to me it looks very cheap and feels cheap...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2012
  9. IGD

    IGD Member

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    fred, you have a valid point. i never took weather into consideration....I think ill just order atleast 751 from now on and play it safe
     
  10. IGD

    IGD Member

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    also i might add, is the only reason i have that greenstar stuff is because it came with my graphtec plotter i ordered from uscutter.com, dont get me wront though, the service and everything i got from uscutter was great, but idk about that greenstar stuff lol
     
  11. jsmoritz2000

    jsmoritz2000 Very Active Member

    I tried Green Star once and really wouldn't recommend it. It's actually not terrible...it's just not great, especially compared to Oracal. I'm assuming you must be a U.S. Cutter customer. Great company with great service, IMO. I started with them 3 years ago and still use them for about 70% of our vinyl purchases. They sell mostly all top quality vinyl. I'm guessing the Green Star is just their "house" brand and it is intended more toward the hobbyist market, as are their cheaper imported cutters. You will like the metallic polyester films they sell, too. I believe it is made by Creative Film Corp. and it has a 5 or 6 year durability rating. Also the Siser heat press vinyl is probably the best heat press vinyl on the market, IMO. It has a much softer feel than Thermoflex and a lot of others and it holds up great after hundreds of washes.

    Oops! I hadn't made it to your last post when I wrote that. I see you bought the Graphtec from U.S. Cutter. Good purchase. I made the mistake of buying the Copam as my first cutter. It got me started but now I use a Roland and couldn't be happier.
     
  12. IGD

    IGD Member

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    yea im a uscutter customer, and yes GREAT service and products, i think you might be right about the greenstar being a house brand, i might just use if for practice or family members that always ask for free stuff lol. and i will definitly look into siser heat press vinyl becuase i was actually going to buy a heat press and some heat transfer vinyl soon. also i just got turned to fellers. pricing seems to be good there as well.
     
  13. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    its goona tent no matter where in the country you use it.. Its just a matter of time.

    It gets to 100F with sunny days here in Michigan.
     
  14. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    Unless there's a large volume of material involved the difference in cost usually doesn't warrant the chance of premature failure from using the cheapest material possible.
     
  15. Dovette

    Dovette Member

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    I've heard of 651 lasting 8 years, even seen it in a couple of cases.
     
  16. aaronJREgraphics

    aaronJREgraphics Member

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    I also use 951 on most cars sometimes i will use 751 its a really good cast, 651 is a great vinyl and i wouldnt tell you never to use it on a vehicle application but like cp signs said with me its just a piece of mind thing i know that if i use 951 the cost is more but it will last in the elements.
     
  17. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Besides of the area of the country you're located..... another factor seems to be the color of the vinyl and the color of the vehicle. Dark is tricky.

    Like Tech mentioned, it gets hot everywhere, not as long or excessive some places, but compound that with a dark vehicle cooking the vinyl from beneath, you might end up with a mess. I've also seen it happen with cast, but only you can create your reputation. Remember this also, when a company sells you a piece of equipment or machinery, they generally aren't giving you top notch supplies for free. Unless you know exactly what you're getting, it's almost better to tell them to keep their freebie crap and knock some more off the price, cause it's only good for experimenting.
     
  18. Sidelinemgr

    Sidelinemgr Member

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    Here I have always used the 651 vinyl . Never have really thought about the elements with it. :Oops:
     
  19. DizzyMarkus

    DizzyMarkus Active Member

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    651---- temp signage, banners, decals, mailbox and racecars, even wall murals etc :smile:

    751---- store fronts, vehicles, long term signage, and a upgrade charge :smile:

    Convex- motor bikes, snowmobiles, jetskis, helmets and coolers -- anything you need it to surely stick to and last :thumb:



    I put some 651 (black) on a white mailbox about 8 months ago. Its sunned for a few morning hours, not to bad. After 3 months I thought there was dirt on it so I wiped it off -- lol it was dirt on the adhesive from where the 651 shrunk! A solid 1/8".

    Take everything these guys tell you, even if you don't believe it. Down the road it turns out to be correct :thumb:

    Markus
     
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