Vinyl is NOT made for Signmaking

[Centro Graphics]

A short rant.

Why is vinyl not really made for sign making? What are you talking about I hear you say!

Im sure, like me, you all have had the problem, right!?

Vinyl marks and scratches far too easy. So today we decided to make a sign with a flood coat black background with text on top, straight forward pretty run of the mill piece. We may well of printed it, but hey why not use up that coloured vinyl thats been sitting there a few months. Im not talking cheap vinyl, this is Avery 800.

So we get em done, all three of em. Then the last few seconds of applying the graphics (at this point we wished we had printed the f*****g things as weeding and layers was taking longer than I wanted it to) a piece of sintra style material slightly drags over the face of one of the others.......
BIG Fricken mark all the way across it. AHHHHGGGGHHH.

So why does vinyl that gonna take abuse throughout its whole working life mark so EASILYYYY!!??

This also happens with squeegees as Im sure you have all experienced, also on laminates when applying dark colours, even felt ones do it.

Why does Vinyl mark so EASILY??

I feel a little better.

S

 

[Gino]

Why silly..... everyone knows.... vinyl is for making 33-1/3 and 45 records. This sign crap is just an afterthought since they went to cassettes and then CD's.

 

[Centro Graphics]

hahaha thanks Gino love it

 

[OldPaint]

WHO WAS THE DUMMY... that dragged a piece of sintra like material across the vinly???????? if ya been usin AVERY THAT LONG....YOU or them shoulda known.......THE SINTRA LIKE MATERIAL being dragged across the vinyl WOULDA DUN THAT))))))))))
over here.........if you want SURFACE DURABILITY you use a cheap vinyl)))))) its made for abuse. i do a lot of tree service vehicles..........all of em get CALENDERED VINYL!!!! HP vinly on these trucks wouldnt last 2 weeks.

 

[Techman]

heat gun just might make it good.. maybe. if its just a scuff

 

[Fastsigns2041]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :'( :'( :'(

 

[paul luszcz]

Also, I'm pretty sure it's the laminate on the printed piece that gives you the protection, not that the ink is more durable. Vinyl color goes all the way through so when it scratches, it doesn't change to white. You can laminate solid vinyl if you want physical durability.

 

[MikePro]

i dare you to name a sign material that is impervious to complete lack of care while handling.
vinyl is plastic, sintra is plastic, plastic scuffs plastic. be more careful next time.

clean the area best you can & polish with wax (Pledge, or whatever you guys use over there).
the wax fills the scratch & helps hide the blemish.

 

[TammieH]

Better to use vinyl for signs than clothing

 

[SignManiac]

Hardly anything is resistant to vandalism or clumsiness. Signs, vehicles, most any advertising isn't meant to take abuse. It's supposed to just sit there and go unmolested. But that only happens in fantasy land.

STOP SIGN MOLESTATION.

 

[TammieH]

Back in the day when everything was hand painted, it sure wasn't bulletproof, lettering would get scratched on box vans, if you touched up you had to deal with faded paint.

Basically, nothing man made will last forever...amazing, here in the Pac NW, mother nature shows who is boss, algae, moss, whatever you call it grows on everything that doesn't move, and some things that do move, like cars.

Sandblasted signs are covered with the green fuzz, backlit signs have it growing in the channels....its creepy!

 

[player]

You need to switch over to making porcelain enamel signs.

Very durable and scratch resistant.

 

[David Wright]

I love how Old Paint justifies using inferior vinyl.

 

[OldPaint]

sorry to inform you david........BUT what i said is FACT!!!! HP vinyl is great for NEW EQUIPMENT/TRUCKS/VEHICLES that dont take any USE/ABUSE/ROUGH WORKING CONDITIONS like ROOFING, TREE SERVICE, LAWN MAINTENANCE..........and i know this from EXPERIENCE.....i have vehicles out there lettered with HP.........And i got em lettered with calendered. and i know enough to put the proper vinyl on either vehicle.
back when i 1st started to do vinyl, i had a roofing company that i did all hand lettering for. i did one truck with HP VINYL........LASTED 6 MONTHS!!!!! trucks that are not driven or taken care of by THE OWNER..and are driven by workers....... these drivers dont take any precautions to not scrape the vinyl. i re did that truck with calendered vinyl, and NEVER REDID IT AGAIN... it went to the scrapyard before the calendered vinyl got destroyed. just did this bucket truck last fall. reflective and calendered black. other vehicles done in calendered....and they will probable drive them for the next 5 years........without any replacement of the vinyl)))))))))))))))))))

 

[Marlene]

if you want SURFACE DURABILITY you use a cheap vinyl)))))) its made for abuse. i do a lot of tree service vehicles..........all of em get CALENDERED VINYL!!!! HP vinly on these trucks wouldnt last 2 weeks

not really. I've lettered all kinds of trucks fro tree service to garbage trucks all Gerber 220 series HP cast vinyl and never had had an issue of it lasting. cheap a$$ vinyl is just that and only that

 

[OldPaint]

well you was sold that story....and bought it.............i know better.....been puttin SHINE RITE on vehicles since it came out........and to date i have had NOT 1 REPLACEMENT OF IT.....even the reds..........and if your old enough to remember SPAR-CAL............... you know how their red faded.and i have vehciles out there with HP.......in fact i tell people the best red vinyl you can buy is AVERY HP, if you have a color chart, find the red that has a silver backing...........this stuff is the longest lasting red i have ever seen. i did these 2000 ford vans in 2000............and these pictures are from 2013................zero fade...

 

[Marlene]

didn't Spar-Cal get bought out by Avery or some other brand of vinyl? I remember it being crap like Avery so not too surprised it faded. as long as you are happy OP and your customer aren't willing to pay for the good stuff, good enough I guess. to me cheap vinyl is what gives vinyl sign a bad name as people have seen the peeling, nasty looking stuff falling off signs/trucks and whatever and assume all vinyl is crap

 

[Gino]

Haha......... going from being careless around finished work...... to who is being careless/negligent or not on cast vs calendared..... what a twist in this story.

In most cases, we will use hi-performance vinyls on anything outside, but we have many customers who buy new trucks and equipment and beat the livin' crap out of them. We generally will use the intermediate vinyl on many of them. Why ?? Because, it's more economical for me, thus we pass savings onto the customer, which is well liked. It's almost always on basic colors, like white, black, reds, blues and maybe yellow. These guys upgrade their vehicles about every 5 to 7 years and around here, the intermediate will last just about 6 or 7 years before stating to see failing. We keep the intermediate on hand for cheap fast jobs, but like Old Paint, we use a lota ShineRite. It's really good stuff.

There's no right or wrong of how or why to use this vinyl here.... or that vinyl there, but when doing it for so many years, one gets to know where and with who you can cut costs. Remember, you are not cutting corners, if you are giving the customer the best bang for their buck. When you go to the grocery store.... do you always buy the tippy-top brand, organic and untouched by human hands food ?? Are you aware when you buy the food at ANY of these fast food chains, you're not buying top shelf. Heck, even the chain restaurants like Red Lobster, Olive Gardens and the AppleBee's are using basically low end foods. No matter where you go or what you buy..... hardly anyone is buying top shelf. Because we are so close to our work, we do what we think is right, but that doesn't mean it's the bestest.

 

[OldPaint]

what gives the sign business a bad rap is people who dont serve their customers what the need and educate them as to the best product for their use. .....and in my 22 years of stickin it.....you learn that some vinyls work better then others in each given application. i get a BRAND NEW OFF THE SHOWROOM FLOOR pickup, that i know is OWNER DRIVEN & MAINTAINED yes, HP VINYL IS THE WAY TO GO......and i tell them why iam using the stuff that cost them more money. and i tell them i can do it cheaper.........if they are only keeping the truck for a couple years or they are leasing it.....then i will put calendered vinyl on it....their choice.
for the customer who brings me a 5-10 year old vehicle, and its used in heavy abuse jobs...CALENDERED VINYL ONLY!!!! if i was doing the customer wrong.........its funny that i have been lettering these same vehicles since 1998))))))

 

[Mosh]

I have never used Cal on ANY vehicle. I love when the lettering is on a vehicle so long it is outlasting the paint on the vehicle! Got a few like that running around.