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Vinyl ?'s

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by Atomik Rooster, Sep 16, 2006.

  1. Atomik Rooster

    Atomik Rooster Member

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    Just a quick ? about vinyl. I purchased a PCUT 630 that came as a package with some vinyl. My ? is...After I weed, when I apply the app. tape to the vinyl, the app. tape doesnt really stick to the glossy surface of the weeded area of the vinyl backing very well. It hasnt been much of a prob so far as I have stored the decal in between the pages of my daytimer till I am ready to adhere it to whatever surface. Is this normal? Before I got the cutter, I had some small display sign verbage done and the place that gave me the letters ready to apply with app tape on them. Their tape was fixed pretty good to the vinyl face like I think it should be. Does this make sense? Any thoughts are appreciated.

    Warren
     
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  2. javila

    javila Active Member

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    Transfer tape. Look for tapes that offer "no curling". They stick to the backer better.
     
  3. gerald

    gerald Member

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    The tape isn't supposed to stick to the backing really well. If you apply it correctly it will appear tight and firm. I would check my application procedure and make sure you are applying correctly. Done correctly it won't have wrinkles or bubbles.
     
  4. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    Warren - Your statements are contradicting each other. Is your tape not adhering to the vinyl, or not adhering to the liner of the vinyl?

    All tapes need to, and do, adhere to the vinyl. There are, though, what is referred to as low tack and high tack tapes. As for the liner, the standard paper tapes do not - at least not with a very strong bond. If they did, peeling the liner could be hell in some cases.

    What is the brand is the brand of the tape that you are using?
     
  5. Ken

    Ken Major Contributor

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    Yeah, it's normal for the transfer tape to lift at the edges of your layout. I usually roll 'em up (loosely) and secure with a piece or two of masking tape.
    Ken
     
  6. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    There are some application tapes which are made to conform or stick lightly to the release liner. Probably the most widely used is R-Tape Conform Series. I could recommend a distributor near you but you chose to state your location as "Home" instead of in what part of the country/world you are located.
     
  7. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    Fred - Just FYI

    As users of "Conform" for many years, I am very disappointed to say that R-Tape has changed their product. First, we noticed a different adhesive. The roll we purchased last week would be difficult to differentiate from the "normal" R-Tape.

    One quick tell-tale sign of the thinner grade paper is when/if you back-spray the tape, to ease in removal, the liquid penetration is almost instant.

    Of course R-Tape denies all of these claims, but there are just to many of that are finding the same results. (Contact with Coburn is pointless, and a waste of time.) It really is too bad because it was a wonderful product. We don't know what is occuring at Coburn Industries but we are becoming very leary of their product and customer comittment.
     
  8. Fred Weiss

    Fred Weiss Merchant Member

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    I hadn't noticed any change yet but thanks for the heads up.

    We used TransferRite 6782 and 6792 for years and they changed the formulation on it in a weird way. We suddenly started getting smalls balls of resin on the top surface from normal squeegeeing. They would then transfer to anything they touched ... like our table tops and then transfer to the backs of other vinyl readings. Ultimately they would end up getting transferred to whatever substrate the vinyl was being applied to and some would then end up trapped under the vinyl when applied.

    We asked American Biltrite about it on two occasions and they claimed ignorance of the situation. That was the end of an almost 20 year relationship with their product line.

    I can tell you that Advantage Sign Supply has a pretty decent premask they call Lay Flat. And Sign Supply USA has a quality line they market as Mercury tape which is also conformable.
     
  9. Atomik Rooster

    Atomik Rooster Member

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    Sep 15, 2006
    Thanks for all the replies. Now after reading my post, it does seem contradictory what I was trying to say. The app tape sticks great to the actual vinyl, but barely adheres to the glossy vinyl backing paper after the vinyl has been weeded and starts to roll up all the way to the edge of the remaining vinyl. As far as the brand, I am unsure, it came as a package deal with the CT 630 I bought, and there is no brand ID on any of the supplies, therefore I am going to assume(imagine that) that it is the bottom of the food chain type stuff. Also, another ? if I might... The firmware version on a CT 630, how do I tell what it is.
    Thanks again for all the replies,
    Warren
     
  10. Mike Paul

    Mike Paul Major Contributor

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    I use medium tack R-Tape conform and it adheres well to the wax liner.:thumb:
    I haven't noticed the thinner paper Pro speaks of but I have experienced tearing from the edges when getting towards the end of the roll. Bad slitting can cause that and also the roll being wound to tight from the manufacturer. R-Tape was aware of the problem and was suppose to make some adjustments a few months ago.
     
  11. Pro Signs & Graphix

    Pro Signs & Graphix Very Active Member

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    Mike,

    They did! We just picked up a roll and it is junk!!! Not trying to hi-jack this thread BUT......

    I wish I could say that it is my imagination, but it is not.

    You see, R-Tape is unaware that I have a roll of tape, from the original slittings of the very first conform that we ever used. The majority of what we use 99.5% of the time is 24". The one size that we seldom ever use is 12", but we have one. This particular roll has to be four to five years old. It pulls nicely, adheres nicely, and has a thicker paper.

    We started having difficulties some time back. Originally I thought it was our fault for leaving the tape exposed to higher than our usual AC temps. Purchased another roll and it was okay. We purchased an additional roll, and it was fine until we were 50% through. At that moment the adhesive became very aggressive, and pulling was getting extremely difficult. we managed to complete that roll and just purchased another.

    I thought the wife was exxagerating when she called me to try and unroll the tape, after getting set up. What a joke! Pure crap! Managed to get the job done - but not before I ALSO noticed that this paper IS thinner.

    I immediately spoke to my distributor (great people). They would bend over backwards to help BUT I am not going to stick them with this roll. First of all I would rather they help us on serious critical matters, not an issue of tape. There profit margins are just not enough for us to warrant raising hell with them AND it is a problem for Coburn to handle (IMO).

    I personally even spoke with Coburn, recently. The only thing they want to offer is to dump it all on the distribbutor. Customer service is useless (IMO). Even after one of their reps or managers (Phil Iwinski) left a message for me, I have not been able to reach him after three messages on his voice mail.

    Of course Coburn will deny everything, but we know what we know.

    At this point, following the lead of another Conform user who also may have experienced problems (neither knew of each others problems), we have ordered a standard roll of 4076 (not 4075) for Monday. We will try that and see where it leads. Looking at there website, there are some new product numbers and I believe they have moved some stuff around.

    If this next roll is junk, Coburn WILL have a PR nightmare on their hands.
     
  12. bighun

    bighun Member

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    I ordered 4075 conform myself because it says it resists edge lifting and doesn't curl. I can't get it to STOP lifting and curling. I'm not sure what to use now. Before, I used Clear Choice AT-60 since I do sell alot of stickers to locals and they like the clear stuff. The AT-60 never curled on me but is hell when it comes to delivering some vinyls in the heat, not a good choice for Arizona.

    I am thinking a high tack paper tape may work better? Any suggestions?
     
  13. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    transferite high tack ULTRA
     
  14. ovrcafnatd

    ovrcafnatd Very Active Member

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    I just recently started using transferite instead of the R-tape conform because I was having many of the problems mentioned. Never had those problems before!!

    But, I think the problem you are having is that it was a 'package deal' and I bettcha' that you ended up with junk vinyl and tape.

    The tape doesn't always adhere to the release liner very well...depends on moisture here in NJ sometimes...so what I do is always allow a bit more - say
    1 inch or so of extra tape on my edges and after smoothing down tape
    fold the edges over and flip it over and run my squeegie over the edges so the tape is adhered to the back as well.

    That extra inch helps quite a bit
    (size DOES matter ;))
    it's a good way to get used to taping up graphics if you will be installing off site....or for shipping.
    You just have to remember (get in the habit) of checking your edges because you now have to cut them off before working.
     
  15. bighun

    bighun Member

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    Gotta love the humor in this! But seriously though, I think I may start folding the edges. Great tip Leigh.
     
  16. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Welcome Atomik Rooster to :signs101: .

    As you've found out, the tape really only needs to stick to the vinyl to do the job properly. You'll remember this post well, when you're saying to yourself, why doesn't this #$@*&$()! tape pick up the vinly ??

    On another note, we usually don't cut, weed and tape too far in advance. In fact, we might cut and weed, but if we're not going to lay the vinyl down, we won't apply the application tape. Just the way we are here.

    And don't forget to squeegee your application tape onto the weeded vinyl. That's a step that will hurt you if you miss doing it.

    Good Luck.
     
  17. imaSIGNr

    imaSIGNr Very Active Member

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    We all encounter the dreaded edge curl. The only time it is really a problem is when a customer needs to do the appl.
    I don't worry too much about it.Just be aware of it and keep your vinyl together ,either flat or rolled. I keep mine flat with homemade cardboard folders that I make of different sizes. It works great for storing vinyl or carrying material to the job site......
     
  18. technowolf

    technowolf Member

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    I just ad a piece of masking tape on the trans tape and flip it on the back at each end.
     
  19. The Big Squeegee

    The Big Squeegee Major Contributor

    Welcome to Signs 101!

    :Welcome: to :signs101: from Oklahoma
    I've got a Big Squeegee for that...:biggrin:
     
  20. WVB

    WVB Very Active Member

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    We use R-Tape Conform series AT-42 for RTA's and do not experience the edge curl. Now when we apply in house we use R-Tape 4075 RLA paper tape. No matter how you squeegee paper tape you will receive edge curl. For registration of multi colored vinyl we use AT-60 ultra clear also works GREAT for wet apps.
     
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