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Vinyl won't stick to glass

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Church504

New Member
First off thanks for accepting me to the forum.

(Problem) Im trying to install a layered (3 color) vinyl graphic on a Barbershop Window. I've tried both wet and dry application and everytime I peel the transfer tape off the vinyl comes off with it. I can't get the first layer to stick at all. I tried with Clear Orical 651 transfer tape and self stick draw liner (suggested by someone else who does vinyl work). Even if I take a small portion of the vinyl and stick it on by hand it peels off with ease.

I'm using Orical 651 vinyl.

Cleaned window with Windex.

Temp outside was around 70°
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Your first mistake is, never like in never...... use windex to clean windows. Clean with alcohol several times to get the windex off and then, put the vinyl down once the window is completely dry.
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
You said 70 degrees, but if it's humid it can be tough. Sometimes I have to wait until later in the afternoon when the humidity drops, especially on new or smooth glass. With high humidity, even using alcohol is tough. I also use plastic application tape when doing humid glass. When I use plastic, I have to have it applied within hours of pre-masking. When the plastic is "freshly" premasked it releases easy from the vinyl. After a day or two and it becomes rather aggressive and has the opposite effect.

This is what I use from Fellers: TRANSFERRITE ULTRA CLEAR 1320 HIGH TACK TAPE FOR ETCHED GLASS/COLORCHANGE FILMS

I know it says "High Tack" but it takes a while for that to set it.. using it "fresh" it releases easily. You can't use plastic in the sun-light. This is just my own experimentation so I'd love to hear others' suggestions.
 
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Johnny Best

Johnny Best

Active Member
I use Sprayway glass cleaner, Home Depot carries it. Sometimes when glass is new it has a slightly oily film to it. If that is the case a razor blade cleaning after spraying on glass cleaner helps and then wipe it down with clean paper towels. I use Kimberly Clarke WypAll L40 towels that hold up better than paper towels.
A lot of people like to use Rapid Tac to clean windows before applying vinyl, but that stuff is expensive and the Sprayway or alcohol method is cheaper. Windex has ammonia in it, and your wanting more of an alcohol based cleaner. Use to use cake Bonami years ago to clean windows to get everything off before applying size for leafing but that is hard to find anymore but the glass cleaner works quicker to clean.
After the first layer of vinyl has adhered then the next layers will stick easily and you can use the wet method.
But you should learn how to apply vinyl dry without bubbles on the first layer.
 
Marlene

Marlene

New Member
Do a tape test on the glass which is sticking a piece of masking tape on and then pull it off. If it falls off or comes off with no resistance, clean the window again with alcohol. There could be an oily film as mentioned but some windows are cleaned with a Rain-x like product so dirt doesn't stick and it stays clear in the rain. Once you can get tape to stick, the vinyl should too.
 
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Chasez

New Member
Agree with Gino... Windex is a big no no. It leaves a film on the glass (as you see all the streaks).

Chaz
 
Kottwitz-Graphics

Kottwitz-Graphics

New Member
Why is no one picking up on the use of shelf liner as application tape?

It sounds, to me (and I may be wrong), an end user trying to apply their own graphics...

Glass application is one of the first things you should learn in the sign trade...with quality materials.

I personally use oracal 751 and 4075ra application tape. Clean with alcohol, and go on my way. Never apply wet, unless it's vinyl on top of vinyl.
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
Since it's a good temp for an install I would guess the glass is contaminated. As has been suggested clean thoroughly with alcohol (I've even had to use acetone on one window)
and test.
 
C

Church504

New Member
Kottwitz-Graphics said:
Why is no one picking up on the use of shelf liner as application tape?

It sounds, to me (and I may be wrong), an end user trying to apply their own graphics...

Glass application is one of the first things you should learn in the sign trade...with quality materials. Lol

I personally use oracal 751 and 4075ra application tape. Clean with alcohol, and go on my way. Never apply wet, unless it's vinyl on top of vinyl.
Click to expand...
I found that funny myself being he said he was a professional. Smh
 
C

Church504

New Member
Thanks guys for the quick response and tips. I did a test on a brand new mirror that I was recently installed in my bathroom. I cleaned half with alcohol and half with Windex, the alcohol side stuck and the Windex side didn't.
I'm give it a go tomorrow and post pics of the outcome.
I really like doing decals (been doing them for over a year on motorcycles). I ordered tons of 651 and invested in a 53" cutter/plotter and a 53" wide scale printer. I'm gonna get lots of practice and within the next year I plan to open my own company.
 
ams

ams

New Member
Some windows have a coating on them now, similar to a wax feeling. No vinyl will stick to it. Also check to see if it has a shatter break film on it, if you cut it with a knife and it leaves a cut, then it has a film.
Also never use Windex ever! It has ammonia in it. Bad for vinyl
 
rjssigns

rjssigns

Active Member
DerbyCitySignGuy said:
I literally learned about permanent hydrophobic coatings yesterday. Haha!
Click to expand...

Lexus has it. Also there are some manufacturing "errors" on tempered glass for cars and businesses that make them non-stick.
Friend was a professional window tinter and he schooled me on the what and why. Ran into it on a van that I did twice before I called him. From what I understand there is too much of a silicone like product used in manufacturing, altering the surface. It never goes away, and there is no known foolproof way to get rid of it.
 
DerbyCitySignGuy

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
rjssigns said:
Lexus has it. Also there are some manufacturing "errors" on tempered glass for cars and businesses that make them non-stick.
Friend was a professional window tinter and he schooled me on the what and why. Ran into it on a van that I did twice before I called him. From what I understand there is too much of a silicone like product used in manufacturing, altering the surface. It never goes away, and there is no known foolproof way to get rid of it.
Click to expand...

I found some in a hospital and thought I was losing my marbles.
 
T

TimToad

Active Member
Kottwitz-Graphics said:
Why is no one picking up on the use of shelf liner as application tape?

It sounds, to me (and I may be wrong), an end user trying to apply their own graphics...

Glass application is one of the first things you should learn in the sign trade...with quality materials.

I personally use oracal 751 and 4075ra application tape. Clean with alcohol, and go on my way. Never apply wet, unless it's vinyl on top of vinyl.
Click to expand...

I'm equally concerned about somebody using intermediate grade vinyl on glass. Knowing what materials to use is another key to entering the world of professional signmaking.
 
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