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VS-640 issues

DRamm76

New Member
I agree with a majority of these posts when stating why would you put 3rd party inks in a NEW machine. You have (or should have unless it was sold by someone not in the territory) a dealer who can come out and assist with any and all problems on this machine. Why risk it to save a few bucks? SMH
 

Jack Knight1979

New Member
fill test in service mode.

it prints 100% ink from one head at a time @ 720x720. This way you can isolate what head is acting up. If you run anything through VW it will mix inks accordingly to and iCC profile.
 

Custom_Grafx

New Member
fill test in service mode.

it prints 100% ink from one head at a time @ 720x720. This way you can isolate what head is acting up. If you run anything through VW it will mix inks accordingly to and iCC profile.

I wonder what it does for a dx5. Just one head. Could it still help?
 

Custom_Grafx

New Member
After testing a few hours using different settings, doing actual size tile segments of around 1m x 1m, I am unable to get a print which has no colour shift between panels.

Attempted fixes thus far;

1) turn on periodic clean (10min)
2) tile in the RIP (VW)
3) tile in Ai
4) print the file at a small scale side by side to ensure no file problems
5) printed using dither
6) printed using error diffusion
7) Bi-di is ok
8) Fill test is ok
9) Nozzle check is ok
10) Using original inks
11) Alternating tiles

note: machine was serviced only a couple of weeks ago, everything aok.

Although the colour variation is slight, I still don't understand why it exists at all. Is this just another one of those things that you live with in wide format print? Should we have to live with it? I personally don't think we should... why should the client pay for a print that changes colour?

The colour is a blue sky. It appears that the fluctuations are in the cyan, as the variation itself is of a blue/purple variety. Looks like it's losing around 5% cyan at times.

Does this warrant some kind of compensation do you think? So much material, ink and time have been wasted as a result. I just feel like I'm going to go through the usual rolodex of troubleshooting one liners - at my expense. I guess that's called product confidence. You never get reimbursed for your time, material or ink with these things, which just aint right.

What's the best way to approach my dealer about this without being a 'pain'?
 

Custom_Grafx

New Member
Could it be dampers? Spoke to tech today and was advised this could be a possibility... ideas?

What are the symptoms of a bad damper?
 

Custom_Grafx

New Member
Had to run it with zero heat. Print and dryer set to OFF.

Roland heater temp fluctuates enough to cause a colour shift in a matte material.
 

Jack Knight1979

New Member
Does it look like ink fade? My Roland does this at times. Dives me nuts. I don't think there's a fix for ink fade. It's a problem with the dx4 head. One thing that can help with ink fade is increasing overall ink output in the profile. I've found that saturation at or above 200% usually clears up ink fade. Also humidity will affect this as static can also cause ink fade.

Roland states that ink output at or below 175 causes fade, but I'm thinking 195 myself.

A damper swap could help this problem, but I've never had a damper go bad or clog. I've changed out tons of dampers over the years, but it's always something else that was causing the problem.
 
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Custom_Grafx

New Member
I've seen ink fade, that's another one of my pet peeves on this machine. Are you referring to random thick, starvation looking banding?

Mine's a dx5 though... and i've narrowed that problem down to mis-aligned take up dancer bar ... maybe. One of my techs thought that was nonsense... Still going to wait a couple more months before i can confirm that. Any difference in tension on the take up from left to right you gotta look out for I reckon.

The problem I was having though, is colour consistency from panel to panel. According to tech, slight shifts in temperature are enough to mess with the dotgain on matte material in particular, which he said is more susceptible to temperature fluctuation related problems. Totally unnacceptable differences in colour when tiled side by side.

So, being advised by a roland tech to run with no heat... makes me wonder... why do we run heat at all if you can't achieve consistent colour with it on?
 

Jack Knight1979

New Member
That's weak. At the end of the day I feel like every printer that is made doesn't come close to performing like it is advertised.

Everyone has problems with all their machines regardless of manufacturer or price.

I had a problem running a good purple last week without horrible banding/ink fade. No matter what I did. Every system in the machine passed all the standard tests, but still couldn't get a good purple out of it.

Annoying.
 

Dave L.

New Member
If your using Versaworks, make sure you select "place alternate" checkbox so the portions on the panels that are butted up, are printed in the same Y axis on the machine. Not doing this can have your colors print differently as the position of the graphic and how the heads fire the ink do have an effect on you output.
 

trimitbyrich

New Member
I have been running Marabu inks for several years and have had NO I repeat NOOOO issues with color variations whatsoever. To suggest this problem is because of using 3rd prty ink is preposterous! According to the US Supreme Court it is unlawful for a manufacturer to place restrictions like having to use their inks in order to get a warranty. This is an actual law in the books. They ruled against IBM for suggesting that their warranty was void if customers used anything other that IBM toner to run their equipment. This is a real law look it up! They even enacted an actual act to support this. The Printer companies only use this as a scare tactic to force you to buy their inks. Because of this law all of the manufacturers changed their warranty policy to one year and you get a second year as long as you sign an ink agreement. Besides Marabu offers a 1 year warranty on your heads as well if you use their inks. Literally there is no difference whatsoever ink their inks vs Roland inks.
 

scuba_steve2699

New Member
I have been running Marabu inks for several years and have had NO I repeat NOOOO issues with color variations whatsoever. To suggest this problem is because of using 3rd prty ink is preposterous! According to the US Supreme Court it is unlawful for a manufacturer to place restrictions like having to use their inks in order to get a warranty. This is an actual law in the books. They ruled against IBM for suggesting that their warranty was void if customers used anything other that IBM toner to run their equipment. This is a real law look it up! They even enacted an actual act to support this. The Printer companies only use this as a scare tactic to force you to buy their inks. Because of this law all of the manufacturers changed their warranty policy to one year and you get a second year as long as you sign an ink agreement. Besides Marabu offers a 1 year warranty on your heads as well if you use their inks. Literally there is no difference whatsoever ink their inks vs Roland inks.


The law you are referring to is the Magnuson-Moss warranty Improvement act and the Clayton Antitrust Act. They both apply to consumer items, NOT commercial machinery. IBM did lose on this one as the items they were voiding the warranty act on were consumer level (general public) pieces of equipment. the law does not cover commercial grade machinery and as thus, the voiding of a warranty by the manufacturer if you use third party inks is valid and will uphold in court.
 

Custom_Grafx

New Member
At the end of the day, Roland DG doesn't want to take responsibility for anything, and will rarely fix something entirely for free even if you are in warranty.

As morbid as this may sound, you're damned if you do and more damned if you don't.

Just as you are there trying to make money by putting ink onto a piece of vinyl, they are there trying to make money out of trying to make you think you can make money out of putting ink onto a piece of vinyl without having to give them a cut.
 

scuba_steve2699

New Member
At the end of the day, Roland DG doesn't want to take responsibility for anything, and will rarely fix something entirely for free even if you are in warranty.

It sounds like you have had a bad experience on this but I can say as a tech, I have seen many times when Roland DGA has not only covered an entire repair, but done it when I felt they were right in saying they wouldn't. I have replaced heads before where it was obvious the damage was from a head strike and Roland covered it. I have yet to see a time when they say no and it was not justified.

Just my 2 cents
 

premiercolour

Merchant Member
A local media client who bought a new VS540 about a year ago is having the same issue. He is only using eco max inks. Since Roland Headquarter is local, they(Roland) flew a tech from Japan to find out the problem - No result was ruled out. The machine is near end of warranty. Changed three print heads in one year period of time, problem still there. Stay away from VS at least for now.
 
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