Vutek 3250 secondary ink tank not filling up

[Dark Fox]

The ink systems on the Vutek 3250r and 3250 are identical. So here's my long shot.

I am having a problem with my Vutek 3250R. The secondary tank in channel 2 is not filling up. The pump, filter, and the valve entering the secondary tank have been replaced. When the machine is started, after hours of being shut down, it will fill up. But once I do a purge, it will not fill up again. Every other tank is fine.

Has anybody had this problem?

 

[wunder]

check your reservoir/float sensor.....can be thats not working and shows always full state.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

check your reservoir/float sensor.....can be thats not working and shows always full state.

Probably the most likely scenario. We had the same issue all the time on our Rastek. We rarely had to replace them, but we would occasionally have to open the sub tank and make sure the float wasn't stuck.

Pull it out, clean it off, make sure it's mechanically sound. If it still doesn't work, you might need to replace it.

 

[Dark Fox]

ink tank not filling up

Sorry, I forgot about that. We also replaced the floater, both with a known working one, and a new one. I'm beginning to wonder if the passive board is the culprit.

 

[ImagePress]

When doing a purge to empty the tank, open up the sensors window in the VUI. You'll be able to monitor the float and pump. When the tank empties, the indicator for FULL should go off and the pump indicator should light up. If everything looks ok and the pump doesn't kick on, I'd look at either the pump or the MUX Board.

 

[Dark Fox]

mux board

Would you happen to know how I can test the mux board? My co-worker replaced the pump. I can hear the pump working when I purge. I have purged with the tank open to see if it fills up. The floater all the way down to signal empty.
Some ink gets in there, but not enough to print.

When doing a purge to empty the tank, open up the sensors window in the VUI. You'll be able to monitor the float and pump. When the tank empties, the indicator for FULL should go off and the pump indicator should light up. If everything looks ok and the pump doesn't kick on, I'd look at either the pump or the MUX Board.

 

[ImagePress]

If you can hear the pump working, its not the MUX board. Purge a different color. Do the pumps sound the same? My guess is that the one that isn't working sounds a lot quieter then the one for the color that works. When you replaced the pump and filter, did you prime the filter? If there is air in the filter, the pump won't move any ink. Remove the white cap on the filter vent (but keep it close by) and squeeze the ink bag until you see ink come out of vent and then replace cap.

 

[Dark Fox]

new "symptom"

I have changed the power board, the controller board, the pixel board. Tested the backplane board (passed), the ink board (passed). New floater in the secondary tank. Now for the new find. I tested the pump (they are 24v) with a 12v source, and an 18v source. The pump worked. A little harder with the 18v applied. So this made me wonder why it wasn't that loud when installed inside the machine. I re-installed it and tested it. I can barely hear it when it's in there.
Conclusion. Something is blocking some of the voltage going to the pump. Again, I already switched the power board.
It was a used one, but what are the odds of both boards having the same problem. Any ideas?

 

[gregwallace]

Do you know why you started having problems? Did you run out of ink or have a clogged primary filter which triggered an ink fill error? In my experience if I get a fill error
I would do the following. First check to see if the is plenty of ink remaining in the bag. If there is ink, check for a broken ink line. Listen to the pumps and make sure they are working. If the pumps are pumping then your float sensors are fine since the pumps only turn on when the float sensor tells them to. Last I would replace the primary filter. Now of you did get air in the lines it will get a little tricky to resolve this. Imagepress was pretty much spot on with his suggestion. The only other thing I would do is disconnect the ink line after the pumps and pull all of the air out. If even a small amount of air is trapped in the pump they will not work correctly. I have had fill errors 20 plus times. Keep it simple. Dont risk the boards. If you can hear the pumps the boards are fine.

 

[Dark Fox]

done that

I keep forgetting about everything I have done already. I have changed the primary filter already. I have also switched the channels completely through the ink board and the backplane board. In this case, I switched the bad channel 2 with working channel 3.
When I purge channel 2 (incognito 3) that one purges fine, but channel 3 (incognito 2) still will not fill. Now here's where its gets even more complicated. Now that I've done all this, it will now fill up, but not fast enough to keep up with a printing demand or fill after a purge.
Without printing or purging, it takes about a minute for it to fill up to the acceptable level. But at least I got some ink in there now.

While purging any other channel, I can hear every pump all the way from the operator side. Channel 2 on the other hand, I have to get my head down to the ink bottle level for me to hear it. Again, I pulled this pump, swapped it with a new one, and had the same problem. I tested both pumps with outside the machine, and they both spat out ink all over the place. Loudly. But inside the machine, I can barely hear them working. I both heard and felt the pump working. But just enough for me to notice.

Now, if this is being caused by an air bubble, please advice how to get the air out from the line, after the pumps.
This would be the line that is about 20 feet long that is fed through the umbilical right?

Do you know why you started having problems? Did you run out of ink or have a clogged primary filter which triggered an ink fill error? In my experience if I get a fill error
I would do the following. First check to see if the is plenty of ink remaining in the bag. If there is ink, check for a broken ink line. Listen to the pumps and make sure they are working. If the pumps are pumping then your float sensors are fine since the pumps only turn on when the float sensor tells them to. Last I would replace the primary filter. Now of you did get air in the lines it will get a little tricky to resolve this. Imagepress was pretty much spot on with his suggestion. The only other thing I would do is disconnect the ink line after the pumps and pull all of the air out. If even a small amount of air is trapped in the pump they will not work correctly. I have had fill errors 20 plus times. Keep it simple. Dont risk the boards. If you can hear the pumps the boards are fine.

 

[gregwallace]

Alright so you are getting fill errors right? Its unusal for the pump to sound different unless there is air at the pump. Have you swapped the pump connections as well. I know you tricked the machine into thinking channel 2 is 3 and vice versa but did you swap the connections at the pump without detaching the ink lines?

 

[ImagePress]

While purging any other channel, I can hear every pump all the way from the operator side. Channel 2 on the other hand, I have to get my head down to the ink bottle level for me to hear it. Again, I pulled this pump, swapped it with a new one, and had the same problem. I tested both pumps with outside the machine, and they both spat out ink all over the place. Loudly. But inside the machine, I can barely hear them working. I both heard and felt the pump working. But just enough for me to notice.?

This still sounds like air to me. If there is air in the pump, it won't move ink. This also occurs when there is air in the primary filter. If I recall correctly, these are not self-priming pumps so you have to squeeze the bag while it is trying to pump to force the air through the pump so you can get it primed. This can take a few cycles to get the air all the way through (has taken us 5 or so min of constant squeezing and pumping). You'll know when its full primed as it will sound a lot louder and deeper. Air in the lines behind the pump will not affect filling as it will be forced through the lines by a working pump.

 

[Dark Fox]

Issue solved

To all of the people that tried to help me: Thank you. The issue actually involved a few things. I'm posting this so it might help someone in the future. My case was extreme though.

So several things were causing the problem. Imagepress was right on one of them.
1. There was air in the pump and in the filter. My co-worker had not switched them properly.
2. The ink solenoid was bad.
3. The sensor inside the floater was bad, not only on that channel (this was channel 2 by the way), but the sensor on channel 1 was bad as well.
4. The pressure valve was bad (the 5psi one on the tank).

All this was caused by a non-experienced "operator" hired for about a week, he had loaded the flex ink from our GS printer on to that channel.
This clogged the machine within 4 hours. The ink lines were flushed, but only from the pumps up. After that, the machine chugged along for a month.
So the ink left at the pump and back did a whole lot of messing up, and I trusted that the operator that had been here for 2+ years knew what he was doing.
Obviously he did not bleed the parts properly.
This, plus the flex ink clogging parts, was what had me running up and down the machine trying to figure out what was wrong.

I hope this helps someone in the future.

Again, thanks to everyone who tried to help.

 

[Aguilaaaar21]

What can cause issues of Magenta Dropping out during a print, could it be vacuum related or pump related?

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

What can cause issues of Magenta Dropping out during a print, could it be vacuum related or pump related?

Could be any number of issues. If it's starting out fine and then dropping out as you get further in, probably a starvation issue, most likely the sub tank isn't filling quickly enough.

 

[Aguilaaaar21]

Could be any number of issues. If it's starting out fine and then dropping out as you get further in, probably a starvation issue, most likely the sub tank isn't filling quickly enough.

we did have an issue with the float about 3 weeks ago and replaced it, do you believe maybe it was part of the problem as well ? have new pumps on there so im not sure what else we can look at. would you be able to provide with some advice?

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

we did have an issue with the float about 3 weeks ago and replaced it, do you believe maybe it was part of the problem as well ? have new pumps on there so im not sure what else we can look at. would you be able to provide with some advice?

You could always check the lines to make sure you don't have any sediment in there. If there is, it's possible it's either restricting flow through your lines or getting into the sub tank and fouling the float. Floats are finicky, I'd check them every time you have an issue. They're usually very cheap and tend to stick.

 

[Aguilaaaar21]

okay so would you need to take out the ink from the secondary tanks in order to check and see if there is sediment in the tank?

 

[Ricardo Cobar]

okay so would you need to take out the ink from the secondary tanks in order to check and see if there is sediment in the tank?

I love this printers(sarcastic)... same happened here where I work (Vutek GS3250). I had to replace the check valve on the incoming ink side, also cleaned all the 3 way valves (solenoids), the auxiliary tank had a lot of sediment, and air in the system. Ink starvation was my nightmare for few days. Now it is running fine, finally!

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Never experienced that issue on the H2000 or the GS3250, but definitely had the issue on other printers.

You pretty much have to start at the ink jug and work your way to the heads. Somewhere between the ink and the head there's a problem. Haha! Sorry it's not more specific, but if you start at the first spot and check everything, you're going to find your problem. If you don't find anything, time to call VUTEk or EFI.