Wasting time with customers. Need advice.

[klingsdesigns]

I feel like there has to be a better way then emailing back and forth sending proofs left and right fixing one thing here and there . Changing colors etc.

How do you guys deal with people who email you like this and deal with it.

How to you set it straight in the beginning with not sounding mean about pricing.

They ask how much after a couple emails and i tell them. Then after sending about 10 proofs i am wasting my time.

 

[DigiPrinter]

Tell your prospect/client that you allow three revisions and beyond that you start charging for added design time. Ask them to come in and sit down to go over what they are really wanting. Too much interpretation can happen via emails and away to the sideways track you go....

 

[Rick]

What kind of signs?

I assume you are not charging for design?

It's been my experience that most sign shops do not charge
for design/layout upfront.

Quite a few sign types do not need a design to price, estimate
(if you can) get a down payment and allow them a certain
amount of revisions, charge when they go past that amount.

I would think after they approve the size, and basic design,
it's a simple thing to give them an estimate, collect a down
payment and then make basic color changes but only allow
them 2-3 rounds, they would pay extra for more revisions.

Their indecision should not cost you money. Unless there is
a total breakdown of communication, 10 proofs is ridiculous.

It would help if you had a design brief to narrow down what
they need/want.

 

[klingsdesigns]

I always get that random customer that wants something so simple, and it turns into the biggest pita. I had a guy that wanted a boat name, needless to say took him about 3 weeks and a ton of revisions to get it perfect, colors, look size etc...

 

[klingsdesigns]

What kind of signs?

I assume you are not charging for design?

It's been my experience that most sign shops do not charge
for design/layout upfront.

Quite a few sign types do not need a design to price, estimate
(if you can) get a down payment and allow them a certain
amount of revisions, charge when they go past that amount.

I would think after they approve the size, and basic design,
it's a simple thing to give them an estimate, collect a down
payment and then make basic color changes but only allow
them 2-3 rounds, they would pay extra for more revisions.

Their indecision should not cost you money. Unless there is
a total breakdown of communication, 10 proofs is ridiculous.

It would help if you had a design brief to narrow down what
they need/want.

This was designed by someone else and sent to me from the designer.. Which is interesting, but i had to change it to vector and then she started wanting to change everything on it.

 

[player]

I never design before I get the order.

 

[Stanton]

This was designed by someone else and sent to me from the designer.

Pass.

 

[Salmoneye]

I give an estimate for the work and take a deposit. On the design I charge actual time spent by the hour. I keep a list of job folders up on one monitor and it has a stopwatch feature that I can click on and off and tracks the time. That includes phone discussions, opening/writing emails, searching fonts... It is a reasonable hourly rate compared to many design rates but I don't mind revisions as a result. Customers also know that they are burning their own gas and keep the process moving as a result.

 

[Rick]

Pass.

As if all sign shops are actually good at design, know what
they are doing or that designers are the only ones who can't
make up their minds... gimme a break

 

[Rick]

This was designed by
someone else and sent to me from the designer.. Which
is interesting, but i had to change it to vector and then
she started wanting to change everything on it.

Then she should understand that it's going to cost her.

 

[klingsdesigns]

My customer had a designer design something for her.. which i think was a friend or someone she knew. Either way i had to redo it all .. that didnt take much time, its the emailing back and forth that is taking the time. I think i am going to start and push the hourly rate more and have a stop watch and do it that way with the computer.

 

[Stanton]

As if all sign shops are actually good at design,

did you type that all by yourself?

 

[Rick]

did you type that all by yourself?

I'm thinking the admins need to reconsider your title...

 

[Stanton]

I'm thinking the admins need to reconsider your title...

:Big Laugh

 

[heyskull]

This is a hard one, as some times it just makes it so much easier to get the client in and design it in front of them.
Then at least you are not just wasting your time , you are wasting theirs also.

But even this can go badly wrong!

Many years ago when working for another sign company I was handed a design job to do for a customer with a tool van (like Snap-On).
This client constantly came in (maybe twice a day) adding tweeks to the layout, artwork and spending a lot of time getting the right colours.
After at least 4 weeks of coming and going this client came in once again to add his touch and on finally okaying the design for application to his vehicle, he commented as he signed the design of:-

"It doesn't really matter I'm useless at this sort of thing anyway and also I'm completely colour blind (as he couldn't differentiate any colour and could only really see in black and white!)".

That day after the client had said this I walked into the bosses office flung my arms in the air, had a bit of a rant, explained what had happened and promptly had an early finish!

Moral of the story is :-
Clients/Customers are all different, some will just take what they are given and others haven't a f*****g clue, but think they do.

No easy answer to your design problem and sometimes if you say their will be a further charge for artwork (which they usually expect it is in with the job) they will go somewhere else !

SC

 

[Jillbeans]

You need to have proposal sheets
(I use two-part but I also send them via email as a pdf)
Mine state that after the deposit, I will do two sketches, colors to be determined upon design approval. I explain verbally that if they like the font from Sketch A but the icon from Sketch B or whatever, I will not charge for a third sketch which amalgamates these.
Any sketches or revisions after this point are charged at a shop rate of $xx per hour. They know this going in. Logo design is a little different, but almost the same process.

In your case, you needed to charge $xx per hour to rebuild her artwork (lots of "designers" don't even know what a vector is) I would not have included any revisions, as this was her artwork. I would have charged for each addition. She needed to know the first time she wanted a change, to keep changes at a minimum or pay you to make them.

The only other way to "save time" is to have them look over your shoulder, which is the biggest way to waste YOUR time. I only do this after getting a feel for the client and predicting what they will do or say, or what a pain in the butt they are. Once a design is almost there, I'll call them in (usually only if they are a man, otherwise you will be there allll day) to see if they want green or blue.

Never do anything without its being in writing in some form. Never design without a deposit.
Love....Jill

 

[visual800]

We are one of those that do not get design fees and we gladly do art and layouts upon requests. I feel that my layouts is whats seells the job (well sometimes when the customer gives a damn) I NEVER.......NEVER give a quote until they decide on a layout BUT if I feel they are wasting my time I go ahead and quote them double and get rid of them

Some customers have to be in charge of the shape, the size and the lettering. I dont like that because a majority of customers aint got a clue. Im getting pretty good at learning cusotmers that are wasting your time BUT every now and then one slips thru the cracks.customers will waste your waste your time you gotta figure out early which ones that will be.

 

[Jillbeans]

Bruce, are you saying that you design without a deposit? Do you email these proofs or print them out? Or do you just do it on a laptop during a sales pitch?
I might doodle a thumbnail when I am talking to a potential client but I never EVER give them anything they can show to another sign shop.

 

[gabagoo]

As soon as I detect that an email conversation, be it design or pricing goes back and forth more than 2 or 3 times, I get on the phone and get the info I need. Many times I will ask 2 or 3 questions to clients and they respond with only one answer leaving the other 2 unanswered.....speaking to them resolves most issues much faster.

 

[FireSprint.com]

My suggestion would be to show a few samples of your work. Have stuff on the wall and even a binder they can flip through. It's up to you to build their confidence in the service you offer. Take 5 or 10 minutes to sketch out some ideas on paper in person if possible and work up an estimate for the whole project including what you think it will take you to design what the customer wants with 2 additional revisions. Then, build an invoice.

We always had a policy - $500 or less, prepay 100% before we start the work. Above that, $500 deposit or 50% or cost of materials, whichever is higher.

Once the customer has paid for the design, you are on their time and they will get moving a little quicker in most cases. They are no longer "shopping" for a design at that point, they've bought one, they just need to hash out some of the minor details.



Next time someone wants to see a mockup, show them your well laid out portfolio and samples of work you have done instead. Instill confidence in them that they are making the right choice in doing business with you. After they have paid, show them the design you LOVE and KNOW will DRIVE business to their front door!

CONFIDENCE!