iPrintStuff
Prints stuff
I laminate pretty much everything that leaves our shop. Even some customers.
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We don’t laminate our signs. Thoughts?
- Thread starter Jo Hill
- Start date
brycesteiner
New Member
Not a problem.
We had two large format machines in our small county besides ours. Neither one exists now.
1. had too much fading and the only person who ran the machine went somewhere else and the company, whose main job was actually medical suits and equipment, sold the machine.
2. the other printer bought all his ink and vinyl on ebay. He is now out of business after running it in the ground and telling customers he would reprint the job he spilled part of his lunch on next time they ordered.
It actually brought us work because their signs needed replaced in a year. I would go out and look at these seigns to requote and I would ask the customer how long they had been up, 10 years? They said, "no, last year". These signs looked bad. I think pee would color the sign longer. One one side completely washed out to where you couldn't see it. The north side you could still see it pretty good. I went up to it and put my finger on it just to feel the ink. It rubbed right off.
So, it was no problem for me. I've been busy this whole year, replacing the other companies' crap.
We pretty much always laminate unless it's white cut vinyl. If it's indoors we give them an option and ask them how long do you want it?
I'll give them a price with and without but most of the time the customer sees that lamination is worth it and I don't usually have to do any convincing.
We had two large format machines in our small county besides ours. Neither one exists now.
1. had too much fading and the only person who ran the machine went somewhere else and the company, whose main job was actually medical suits and equipment, sold the machine.
2. the other printer bought all his ink and vinyl on ebay. He is now out of business after running it in the ground and telling customers he would reprint the job he spilled part of his lunch on next time they ordered.
It actually brought us work because their signs needed replaced in a year. I would go out and look at these seigns to requote and I would ask the customer how long they had been up, 10 years? They said, "no, last year". These signs looked bad. I think pee would color the sign longer. One one side completely washed out to where you couldn't see it. The north side you could still see it pretty good. I went up to it and put my finger on it just to feel the ink. It rubbed right off.
So, it was no problem for me. I've been busy this whole year, replacing the other companies' crap.
We pretty much always laminate unless it's white cut vinyl. If it's indoors we give them an option and ask them how long do you want it?
I'll give them a price with and without but most of the time the customer sees that lamination is worth it and I don't usually have to do any convincing.
UV Lamination is one of my biggest sales "hook". I tell the customer (especially if they're shopping around) that with
our top quality UV lamination, my signs might be 15-30% more than the other shops that don't laminate, but they are getting 2-3 times
more signage because my sign will last 2-3 times longer, will stay cleaner & less likely to scratch. A lot of times, if I know they're cheap,
I will quote it with and without lamination... but they always opt for having it.
That being said, getting a laminator at a huge shop I managed about 5 years ago, was like an act of congress...
our top quality UV lamination, my signs might be 15-30% more than the other shops that don't laminate, but they are getting 2-3 times
more signage because my sign will last 2-3 times longer, will stay cleaner & less likely to scratch. A lot of times, if I know they're cheap,
I will quote it with and without lamination... but they always opt for having it.
That being said, getting a laminator at a huge shop I managed about 5 years ago, was like an act of congress...
Mascitti Bro
New Member
The laminating equipment was about the last big piece we bought, so in the weeks before getting it, and while doing some small printing projects-just to practice, I did everything I could to convince myself that I could produce and sell stuff without the laminate. But man, once you feel that finished product in your hands when it has the laminate on it- it just feels so much superior. I never concerned myself again with that issue and can't think of when the last time was that I didn't use it on whatever we're producing...
I know a fellow in town that does not laminate a thing, even car wraps. Latex printer. I also started not to laminate a thing from 2 months, as i bought a Roland. Before was outsourcing and i still don't have a laminator. Though i have bought a liquid for lamination of outside signs.
But lose his business? I don't think so. This guy is notoriously a funny business and people still go to him. $$$, people are greedy and cheap. Where i live everything is about cost.
But lose his business? I don't think so. This guy is notoriously a funny business and people still go to him. $$$, people are greedy and cheap. Where i live everything is about cost.
Signature Sign Guys
New Member
I have worked at a couple shops where we laminated everything and also worked at a shop where we laminated only some things. If the sign is only going to be used for a month or two and then thrown away. We give the client the price on laminated and non-laminated signs and let them know the difference between the two, and they can make a decision based on that
ams
New Member
They also probably laminate solvent prints quickly without waiting for the degassing.
Still nowadays in Spain only price matters. Especially with the online competitions of cheap laminated prints. Its not only the lamination or lack of it. I am the only one in range of say 30 km / as this is what i can check/ that was using good vinyl. But even that finished. I stopped caring. Last 2 months i use only the cheapest possible vinyl. less than 1 euro per square meter and same lamination, 0.6 per square meter. Why waste 2.5+2.5 per square meter when people dont care at all.
So now Ink+Vinyl+Laminate= less than 2 euro per square meter. Now i started undercutting the internet MFs. And orders from designers that used the internet services started piling, cause i can give same price, i am faster and i am a shop. For the rest i am still charging proper prices.
The internet companies started a war that they can not win in the long run. Why? because i have a printer that costs 3k and they print on a printer that costs 20k. They have workers, i don't have. I can service my printer, they pay premium or have to buy new printer again 20k. Sooner or later they have to pay more workers, taxes, etc. Not me. Good luck to their fast money. I will be there when they are not.
So now Ink+Vinyl+Laminate= less than 2 euro per square meter. Now i started undercutting the internet MFs. And orders from designers that used the internet services started piling, cause i can give same price, i am faster and i am a shop. For the rest i am still charging proper prices.
The internet companies started a war that they can not win in the long run. Why? because i have a printer that costs 3k and they print on a printer that costs 20k. They have workers, i don't have. I can service my printer, they pay premium or have to buy new printer again 20k. Sooner or later they have to pay more workers, taxes, etc. Not me. Good luck to their fast money. I will be there when they are not.
bannertime
Active Member
I'm sorry, but this is all very, very wrong. I'm not going to bother going into detail because I'm pretty sure you've already got your mind made up. Not going to bother wasting my time arguing this. You already said you don't care, but I'm posting this so other people don't think it's a good idea.
1) People do care, and you'll never know until it's too late. You'll never be able to raise your prices cause people will know your stuff as being cheap. People talk. They don't have to talk to you though. The people that truly don't care, buy from the online shops.
2) These companies will last way longer than you or I will because they make millions of dollars on a 250k machine (not 20k, unless they have a fleet of 570s, and then it's still 250k) while you may do hundred thousand on a 3k machine.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
They dont care because they dont know any better. Most people do but it is your job to show them why they should. Become a resource rather than a commodity and you will get the prices that you need.
I am not comparing to companies that have such printers and money. What i am saying is that locally i started to sell to more people the moment i could offer their prices.
You don't know Spain. here the word is CHEAP and PRICE. No one cares for anything else. In USA people may have money for fancy staff, in Spain the people only pay for the bare minimum. At least in the region where i live.
When i started the business i started it with my CNC. And my ide was to make signs from Polyurethane. 3d letters and stuff. So i started selling to local sign shops first, before i opened my business for the public. I still sell to them . You know how many signs from PU i sold? 0, yes Zero. But from XP polistirene , oh yeah. from that i make money. Why? CHEAP material. And so on...
You don't know Spain. here the word is CHEAP and PRICE. No one cares for anything else. In USA people may have money for fancy staff, in Spain the people only pay for the bare minimum. At least in the region where i live.
When i started the business i started it with my CNC. And my ide was to make signs from Polyurethane. 3d letters and stuff. So i started selling to local sign shops first, before i opened my business for the public. I still sell to them . You know how many signs from PU i sold? 0, yes Zero. But from XP polistirene , oh yeah. from that i make money. Why? CHEAP material. And so on...
iPrintStuff
Prints stuff
The reason these companies can go so cheap, is they bulk buy EVERYTHING and they run industrial machines, which are generally cheaper to run. Hell even a flat bed means it’s just material and ink instead of material, ink, vinyl, laminate.
Then they mostly have automated systems and ordering etc. Meaning less people are involved which means less money on staff.
In short, you may be matching their price by compromising on quality but they’re still making a lot more money than you. Even their shipping will likely be cheaper. No point doing a sign half price if it only lives 1/5 of the time.
Then they mostly have automated systems and ordering etc. Meaning less people are involved which means less money on staff.
In short, you may be matching their price by compromising on quality but they’re still making a lot more money than you. Even their shipping will likely be cheaper. No point doing a sign half price if it only lives 1/5 of the time.
iPrintStuff
Prints stuff
Actually I’m from Europe, and my company prioritises quality over cheap materials.
You don’t get it. If you try compete with these online companies and make pennies per job. That’s on you when you’re working flat out and struggling to pay the bills.
Work smarter not harder. As Gino said before, if I’m charging 2x as much as you for a quality product, I only need to do half as much work.
You don’t get it. If you try compete with these online companies and make pennies per job. That’s on you when you’re working flat out and struggling to pay the bills.
Work smarter not harder. As Gino said before, if I’m charging 2x as much as you for a quality product, I only need to do half as much work.
I dont compete with them. I charge triple. But now i also take jobs that otherwise would have missed.
I don't really care even if they give it for free. I have bought my printer to be able to do fast jobs and don't lose customers that want something printed fast.
Most $$ per hour i make when doing actual work like design, fabrication and installation.
If you don't get what i was saying in previous posts further conversation is pointless.Time will tell.
iPrintStuff
Prints stuff
right so you offer people the big sign companies prices?
but at the same time charge triple?
If you want to be a cheap hack, go for it by all means. But at least be consistent about it..
Caren Hines
New Member
We us a laminating machine to lay every print, be it small or large. And we laminate everything! Using a cheap laminate machine to put your prints down will save time and money, no bubbles either.
Caren Hines
New Member
We do as well! Be it small or large.
Also use a laminating machine to put all prints down, no bubbles!
Also use a laminating machine to put all prints down, no bubbles!
We are a commercial printer that started out with Aqueous wide format and only recently installed a Solvent printer, laminator and cutter. I am constantly questioning what I should or shouldn't laminate. Our largest signage customer gets dozens of double sided posters on polystyrene and roll-up banner inserts that they replace every 30-90 days. We haven't been laminating, but we have been worried about scuffing.
No complaints so far, but once you have a complaint it may be too late.
Are the current eco-solvent printers any more scratch resistant than the older solvent printers?
No complaints so far, but once you have a complaint it may be too late.
Are the current eco-solvent printers any more scratch resistant than the older solvent printers?